I remember Les Bowman, gawd, that was a looonnnggg time ago.

I used to have a pair of old Mod. 70s, in .300H&H with the steel buttplates and I loaded them with either 200 gr. Speers or Nosler PTs. to the safe max. I had Leupy 3.5x10 scopes on them on Leupy QDS and they were half inch guns.

I would load each one with 5 rounds and place them on my shooting bench, then pick one up and quickly fire all five rounds, put it down and then shoot the other immediately. Most of the time, the 10 shots would go under the palm of my hand at 100 yds, using 4x setting on the scope, offhand, no sling. This is not difficult to do as .300 Mags. don't kick very much.

Les Bowman was an O'Connorite, a small-bore man and as I remember, used to boast about all the Black Bears he had shot with his .25-35 Mod. 94 carbine. Maybe he was just hyper-sensitive to recoil or maybe he was just hasslin" Elmer?

In all honesty, any healthy person can learn to shoot a .300 Mag. well, from field positions, it just takes careful practice after a bit of sound instruction. Of course, many people will NOT practice as they know they should, but, those kind will find any caliber to be too much, IMHO.

Thanks for the heads-up re: the Kimber bases, I don't much care for the Redfield style anyway and will spring for Talleys. With a rifle like this, I like to keep a spare 4x Leupy sighted in in spare rings back at the truck, so, Talleys make sense.

"A tiny bit more powerful"?

How'd you draw that conclusion?

AD

Comparing say the 7mm WSM to a 300 WSM as to potential effectiveness on game an important factor is shot placement. Since they both shoot quite flat the recoil they produce would, according to Bowman, matter on where the bullet hit's.

So a larger hole with the 300 might not be effective if it hits a little off of where you want it to go.

Bowman carried only one round when he hunted also. He was quite a guy and did influence things. Being in O'Connor's camp is not a bad place to be also.

You guys are the best. I used to wait a month for a magazine to come in the mail.

What is "long range" and what are you shooting at?

I have a 270 WSM, a 700 SPS in a McM MR stock, and think that, 4 me, it will do everything that I need 1 gun to do for lower 48 game. The only thing that I don't think that I'd feel 100% comfortable doing with it is shooting grizzly/brown bears at close range. But in that situation, anything less than a 375 H&H is probably on the small side.

Jeff

As I have mentioned before, I have known and worked with several older guys here in B.C. who guided both O'Connor and Page in the "glory days" of the '50s and '60s. I think that you would be very surprised by the attitudes these bushwise old chharacters, all of whom are long under the sod, had about these famous gunwriters.

O'Connor, in particular, was a very good writer and had the opportunity to travel widely and hunt exotic game in divers foreign lands. This does NOT mean that he actually was much good at locating, stalking, tracking or gutting said game; in short, he was a "dude" hunter who paid others to do the real hunting and packing for him.

This is not intended as a slight against JO'C or anyone else, dead or alive, that chooses to hunt this way, but, I prefer to do it myself and read others that do as well, at least for practical advice. O'Connors lasting legacy is the fact that his writing is very entertaining and worth re-reading; the other thing I admire him for is his promotion of the American Classic Rifle, one of the great contributions of the USA to world culture, IMHO.

Bowman's antics concerning hunting with only a single cartridge do NOT impress me, in fact, I consider such stunts to be foolish. If, you try this sort of macho b.s. here in B.C., you may very well end up as a small pile of Grizzly poop, on a lonely horse trail up the Prophet River. It's all about realistic appreciation of the conditions you hunt under and adjusting your behaviour accordingly, again in my opinion.

I agree wholeheartedly, this is a tremendous resource with some fantastic and knowledable folks on it, of whom you are one. It is so helpful to me to be able to interact with guys who actually have rifles that I think I want and it makes my wife happy, too! This is because I am buying fewer guns these days and part of that is due to the wise advice I find here. Of course, I will still cheerfully "look after" any lonely old Mod. 70s, Legends or even British double rifles that need a good home!

I'd get the 300 over the 7 for many of the reasons stated above. Regarding recoil and shot placement, if you have a problem with the recoil of a 300 WSM, you have some issues. A blanket statement that "300 Mag shooters are worse shots than all others" is making one hell of an assumption. Same goes for shot placement, just because you shoot a 300 is a recipe for poor shot placement is absolutely ridiculous. Man, whre do we get such logic? jorge

I have three 308s, two kimbers and an old Remington 722. Everything dies on schedule when hit properly.

The 300 is for elk mostly. Although I can and do hit the 450 yard gong with my 308s, the 300 WSM or 7mm WSM allows a sightly greater margin of error (+- 75 yards) over the 308.

That being said, the longest shot I've ever taken on a game animal was 353 yards (measured), and can't imagine taking one much over 450 for any reason.

The Kimber Montana is really light in weight. I think that is the issue here- the recoil of a 300 WSM in, say an all up rifle weight of 7.25 pounds or less in the Kimber v a standard rifle weight of 9 pounds or a little more, for instance, in a Winchester 70 Laminate model. The felt kick and muzzle bounce can be substantially greater. A 7 WSM would recoil less but still get the job done on everything in NA with the right bullets with only grizzlies in the gray area.

Having shot at least 1/2 dozen 300 WSM's including Kimbers, I don't know if I could tell much difference between the different 300 WSM's and or a 7 WSM. The Kimbers are light but have well designed stocks with excellent recoil pads. I don't find them at all uncomfortable to shoot but I do have a somewhat dead shoulder. I haven't fired a Montana in WSM yet but I'd bet that the slight recoil absorbtion in sythetic stocks make up for their lighter weight over the standard 8400's. I think if you can shoot 1 WSM you should be able to shoot any of them........DJ