24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,351
Campfire Ranger
OP Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,351
I'm looking at a Kimber Montana in WSM as my long range gun.

Would you get a 300 or 7mm WSM, and why?


“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General
John Stark.
BP-B2

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,211
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,211
Whatchya gonna do with it?

Regardless, flip a coin as it amounts to that much difference... me, I like 30's.

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 21,601
B
BMT Offline
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
B
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 21,601
Quote
I'm looking at a Kimber Montana in WSM as my long range gun.

Would you get a 300 or 7mm WSM, and why?


Long range, as in deer at 300 yards? Then its flip a coin.

Long range, as in Moose at 200 yards, go with the .308 cal bullet.

I would go with the 300 WSM as it seems to be the most popular of the Short mags (and thus, the easiest to re-sell, get ammo for etc.).

BUt, that is just me.

Stick will tell you to get a 7 shamu, but that is just because he is contrary.

Good shooting, you really can't screw up with either.

BMT


"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,052
A
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
A
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,052
I'd get the .300 WSM over the 7mmWSM.

The reason is, I think the .30s are more versatile on a wider variety of game and just-plain kill stuff better. I also think the .30s are more inherently accurate, and less fussy to work with than 7mms. That's been my experience anyway.

Once I started using the .300 Win. Mag. in earnest more than a decade ago, I haven't revisted the 7mm Rem. Mag. I've had no practical reason to.

I'd look at these two WSM cartridges in pretty much the same way.........

AD


"The placing of the bullet is everything. The most powerful weapon made will not make up for lack of skill in marksmanship."

Colonel Townsend Whelen
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 18,069
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 18,069
.270 WSM and never look back!

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Mike


God, Family, and Country.
NRA Endowment Member


IC B2

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,739
K
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
K
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,739
I am going to buy a Kimber Montana as well, I will get the .300 as I backpack in Grizzly country and prefer the larger, heavier bullet. I have seen very large coastal and interior Grizzlies killed stone dead with a single Nosler PT. from .300 Win. Roy and RUM mags. I fully expect that the WSM will do exactly the same thing, I will try the 200 gr. NP as it used to shoot lifesaver holes in my old Mod. 70s in .300H&H, melud!

Right now, I doubt that there is a better option for the solo, backpacker-hunter who finds, shoots and guts, then packs out his own game. I do prefer even more gun for Grizzly country as do most of the really experienced bushwhackers I know in rural B.C., but, a .338 Win. in a rifle as light as the Kimber is just too much for me. I once considered one of those titanium Mausers that Ed Dillon made some years ago, but, the cost was too high for any real advantage one would get.

My thinking is that this Kimber in .300 WSM especially is going to sell in the 100,000s for years to come; it's hard to imagine a more practical rifle for most big game hunters in North America. Of course, I will keep my other rifles because I badly "need" them......................

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 14,807
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 14,807
If the late outfitter and writer Les Bowman was right then the 300 magnum hunters do the worst shooting of any. Bowman was a primary impetus for the 7mm RM and that cartridge became very popular.

I was at the range today with five rifles. One was a 300 WM shooting the 180 Accubond at about 3030 fps. I fired two shots with it and put it away. Then I fired dozens of shots out of a 260 Rem, 7x57 and 270 WSM. I can enjoy shooting those rounds.

On the other hand a 300 WSM will be a tiny bit more powerful and could even be loaded down some.

The Kimber 8400 Montana is a nice rifle. They are light enough to carry for woods hunting.

Have the dealer keep the factory bases. They are not a good design. At the moment the only alternative is the Talley standard steel base for their rings. It's a pricey system but the Kimber's copy of the old Redfield bases and rings are just not a good design.


All guns should be locked up when not in use!
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 863
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 863
Buy both of 'em! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


The Bill of Rights is just that. It is not the Bill of Needs as determined by some liberal know it all.

Politicians and diapers should be changed often for precisely the same reason.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,921
B
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
B
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,921
300 WSM. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749
I have Kimber 8400's in all three of the WSM's. Hopefully I can start on the Montana's next year. My three rifles have the following personalities:
The 270 WSM is the most accurate i.e. 1/2 to 3/4" 3 shot groups at 200yds.
The 7 WSM is driving me nuts because I haven't yet found a handload that shoots better than Federal 160gr Accubonds (at 3120fps). I shot Sunday and out of a cleaned bore the first 2 shots were less than 1/2" the third opened it up to a little over an inch. This rifle always dead centers the first 2 shots at 200yds from a cleaned bore - I'm taking it Elk hunting next weekend.
The 300 WSM hasn't yet shot as well. Some 1 to 1 1/2 200yd groups. I may have been trying to make loads that have worked well in my other 300 WSM's work in it too much instead of trying to find what it likes. So far it's my least favorite of the three - but I have a Sako Finnlite in 300WSM that's also going on the Elk hunt for days I may be walking in rain or snow......

-Federal loads the 180 Accubond in the 300 WSM and the 160 Accubond in the 7 WSM. At 300yds and out the 7 WSM has more energy than the 300.

So in conclusion:
-If you don't handload definitely buy the 300 WSM, it's far the most popular
-If you want the most efficient ballistically buy the 7 WSM.
-If you want the most accurate and easiest to shoot buy a 270 WSM

The 7 WSM in a Montana might be pretty hard to find.


Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
IC B3

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,739
K
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
K
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,739
I remember Les Bowman, gawd, that was a looonnnggg time ago.

I used to have a pair of old Mod. 70s, in .300H&H with the steel buttplates and I loaded them with either 200 gr. Speers or Nosler PTs. to the safe max. I had Leupy 3.5x10 scopes on them on Leupy QDS and they were half inch guns.

I would load each one with 5 rounds and place them on my shooting bench, then pick one up and quickly fire all five rounds, put it down and then shoot the other immediately. Most of the time, the 10 shots would go under the palm of my hand at 100 yds, using 4x setting on the scope, offhand, no sling. This is not difficult to do as .300 Mags. don't kick very much.

Les Bowman was an O'Connorite, a small-bore man and as I remember, used to boast about all the Black Bears he had shot with his .25-35 Mod. 94 carbine. Maybe he was just hyper-sensitive to recoil or maybe he was just hasslin" Elmer?

In all honesty, any healthy person can learn to shoot a .300 Mag. well, from field positions, it just takes careful practice after a bit of sound instruction. Of course, many people will NOT practice as they know they should, but, those kind will find any caliber to be too much, IMHO.

Thanks for the heads-up re: the Kimber bases, I don't much care for the Redfield style anyway and will spring for Talleys. With a rifle like this, I like to keep a spare 4x Leupy sighted in in spare rings back at the truck, so, Talleys make sense.

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,052
A
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
A
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,052
"A tiny bit more powerful"?

How'd you draw that conclusion?

AD


"The placing of the bullet is everything. The most powerful weapon made will not make up for lack of skill in marksmanship."

Colonel Townsend Whelen
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 14,807
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 14,807
Comparing say the 7mm WSM to a 300 WSM as to potential effectiveness on game an important factor is shot placement. Since they both shoot quite flat the recoil they produce would, according to Bowman, matter on where the bullet hit's.

So a larger hole with the 300 might not be effective if it hits a little off of where you want it to go.

Bowman carried only one round when he hunted also. He was quite a guy and did influence things. Being in O'Connor's camp is not a bad place to be also.

You guys are the best. I used to wait a month for a magazine to come in the mail.


All guns should be locked up when not in use!
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,029
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,029
What is "long range" and what are you shooting at?

I have a 270 WSM, a 700 SPS in a McM MR stock, and think that, 4 me, it will do everything that I need 1 gun to do for lower 48 game. The only thing that I don't think that I'd feel 100% comfortable doing with it is shooting grizzly/brown bears at close range. But in that situation, anything less than a 375 H&H is probably on the small side.

Jeff

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,739
K
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
K
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,739
As I have mentioned before, I have known and worked with several older guys here in B.C. who guided both O'Connor and Page in the "glory days" of the '50s and '60s. I think that you would be very surprised by the attitudes these bushwise old chharacters, all of whom are long under the sod, had about these famous gunwriters.

O'Connor, in particular, was a very good writer and had the opportunity to travel widely and hunt exotic game in divers foreign lands. This does NOT mean that he actually was much good at locating, stalking, tracking or gutting said game; in short, he was a "dude" hunter who paid others to do the real hunting and packing for him.

This is not intended as a slight against JO'C or anyone else, dead or alive, that chooses to hunt this way, but, I prefer to do it myself and read others that do as well, at least for practical advice. O'Connors lasting legacy is the fact that his writing is very entertaining and worth re-reading; the other thing I admire him for is his promotion of the American Classic Rifle, one of the great contributions of the USA to world culture, IMHO.

Bowman's antics concerning hunting with only a single cartridge do NOT impress me, in fact, I consider such stunts to be foolish. If, you try this sort of macho b.s. here in B.C., you may very well end up as a small pile of Grizzly poop, on a lonely horse trail up the Prophet River. It's all about realistic appreciation of the conditions you hunt under and adjusting your behaviour accordingly, again in my opinion.

I agree wholeheartedly, this is a tremendous resource with some fantastic and knowledable folks on it, of whom you are one. It is so helpful to me to be able to interact with guys who actually have rifles that I think I want and it makes my wife happy, too! This is because I am buying fewer guns these days and part of that is due to the wise advice I find here. Of course, I will still cheerfully "look after" any lonely old Mod. 70s, Legends or even British double rifles that need a good home!

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,481
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,481
I'd get the 300 over the 7 for many of the reasons stated above. Regarding recoil and shot placement, if you have a problem with the recoil of a 300 WSM, you have some issues. A blanket statement that "300 Mag shooters are worse shots than all others" is making one hell of an assumption. Same goes for shot placement, just because you shoot a 300 is a recipe for poor shot placement is absolutely ridiculous. Man, whre do we get such logic? jorge


A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,351
Campfire Ranger
OP Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,351
I have three 308s, two kimbers and an old Remington 722. Everything dies on schedule when hit properly.

The 300 is for elk mostly. Although I can and do hit the 450 yard gong with my 308s, the 300 WSM or 7mm WSM allows a sightly greater margin of error (+- 75 yards) over the 308.

That being said, the longest shot I've ever taken on a game animal was 353 yards (measured), and can't imagine taking one much over 450 for any reason.


“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General
John Stark.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,102
RSY Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,102
Quote
Same goes for shot placement, just because you shoot a 300 is a recipe for poor shot placement is absolutely ridiculous. Man, where do we get such logic? jorge


Logic??? Where?

RSY <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,279
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,279
The Kimber Montana is really light in weight. I think that is the issue here- the recoil of a 300 WSM in, say an all up rifle weight of 7.25 pounds or less in the Kimber v a standard rifle weight of 9 pounds or a little more, for instance, in a Winchester 70 Laminate model. The felt kick and muzzle bounce can be substantially greater. A 7 WSM would recoil less but still get the job done on everything in NA with the right bullets with only grizzlies in the gray area.

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749
Having shot at least 1/2 dozen 300 WSM's including Kimbers, I don't know if I could tell much difference between the different 300 WSM's and or a 7 WSM. The Kimbers are light but have well designed stocks with excellent recoil pads. I don't find them at all uncomfortable to shoot but I do have a somewhat dead shoulder. I haven't fired a Montana in WSM yet but I'd bet that the slight recoil absorbtion in sythetic stocks make up for their lighter weight over the standard 8400's. I think if you can shoot 1 WSM you should be able to shoot any of them........DJ


Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
103 members (338reddog, 405joe, 7mm_Loco, 10gaugemag, 444Matt, 12 invisible), 1,389 guests, and 665 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,588
Posts18,397,868
Members73,815
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.082s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8939 MB (Peak: 1.0489 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 08:23:39 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS