24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 5 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10 11
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 782
J
JPK Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
J
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 782
Originally Posted by SharpsShooter
Atkinson, you sound like yow are just old and arrogant. Those waning days of your life can be a bitch. Times nearly over and without that big, bad cowboy outfitter veneer you are an empty sack.

Anyway, you have got to be as tired of trading barbs as I am.

What did you think of the skewering I gave JPK on the size of his apertures? You have to admit that was pretty damn funny.

Speaking of mule deer hunting, Wayne recommended I bring my 300 win mag. I've shot that single shot for years including two trips to Africa. And it is deadly. Problem is that I just got in a super nice single shot in 7mm Mauser. I even like the way it shoots with the iron sights. Do you think I should hunt with the 7mm, or play it safe with the 300?

Take care,
josh



[bleep],

You gotta be badly Schizophrenic to crap all over a guy, call him a lier and a thief, a snake in the grass, a bitter old man, an empty sack and an ugly assortment of other undeserved epitats and then ask him for his advice.

And arrogant - jeez is that the pot calling the ketal black!!!

Your apperature joke did have me rolling on the floor, damn funny.

But Bill uses a wide apperature, I use express sights.

Notwithstanding the funny post, you are ill, and beyond that, a fool and a complete and utter prick, novice.

JPK

BP-B2

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,082
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,082
JPK, I am glad you enjoyed the aperture joke. You gotta admit that one hit right in the middle of the ....err...hole.

Anyway, just why did you call my a novice? I admit I have only been to Africa twice. I killed 17 animals on my first trip with a single shot rifle. On my second trip I killed a trophy bull elephant. In the US I have killed about all there is to kill.

So what makes me a novice? One trophy bull elephant? Maybe its time for you to tell us how many trophy elephants you have killed and the circumstances that you or you PH killed them. Hopefully that will give me some idea of where I fall.

I am very much torn with atkinson. I don't think he was involved in the spotlight poaching that went on at that place in Seymour. Atkinson did'nt mind profitting from that deal though.

I grew up working for ranchers like atkinson where their honor and honesty was more important than their lives. I don't know what happened to atkinson. Maybe nothing else for him to do. Bluff and bluster big hunts that may or not deliver, anyone that doesn't connect is an incomptent moron that can't shoot.

I guess that is why the varsity level hunters are lined up to hunt with him. Essentially atkinson has a phone and a line of bullshit that he hopes gets him paid.

After all that, I have a soft feeling for atkinson. He reminds me of some of those old ranchers I knew that where living from a different age and losing it all. They would do anything to try to hold their operations together. Too bad.

I truth, I do hope to meet atkinson in person. Not likely but still would be nice.

JPK, you are such a nice round target I promise to lay off, for a while.

Ray, I hope your mental health is not too bad. I don't hate you and in an odd way wish well in honest work if you can find it.

j


No words of mine can hope to convey to you the ringing joy and hope embodied in that spontaneous yell: �The Americans are coming; at last they are coming!�

I hadn�t the heart to disillusion them.

John "Pondoro" Taylor
Africa 1955
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 782
J
JPK Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
J
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 782
[bleep],

FYI, I had to delete a post on this thread a few minutes ago because I had trouble with my computer and couldn't copy lines from your post. Needed to re-boot. I tell you this so you don't start with groundless and false accusations like you have with Ray. Anything and more that was in the prior post is in this one.

You ought to know that Ray books hunt for very experienced "Varsity" level African hunters. This I know for fact. I haven't ever booked with Ray, but that is just happenstance. I book through outfitters/opperators I personally know or through PH's with whom I wish to hunt. I booked only my first safari though a booking agent, and it wasn't Ray, but as I said, that was only happenstance.

From your post:
"Anyway, just why did you call my a novice? So what makes me a novice? One trophy bull elephant?"

Yes. The topic is open sights on a client DG rifle. As I have posted, my experience tells me that, for buff, a scoped rifle is the more versatile tool. Also, by far the better tool for lion and leopard. Rhino? Who cares, no wild black rhino to hunt, ditto for white rhino, and white rhino were never one of the big five.

But, as I have also posted, for folow up, should it be required, an open sighted rifle is by far the better tool.

And for elephant, an open sighted rifle is the only appropriate tool.

I have gone into why that is so in previous post, so won't do so now, but it is so.

With your one event, one elephant expertise you more than vehemently disagree. You make disengenouos agruments based on false premises and no experience to try to ram your one event, one elephant experience down the throats of vastly more experience DG and elephant hunters.

In truth, you are a rank novice. This most recent posts makes that ever more clear. Just the way you phrase the question reafirms your inexperience on the topic of open sights for elephant hunting.

For the moment, I will decline to rise to your bait and tell you and the whole board, or an even wider audience how much elephant experience I have, but suffice to say a hell of a lot more than you. More, in fact, than "90% of Zimbabwe PH's" - that according to Buzz Charlton, Zim PH and elephant specialist, and Buzz told me that at one half the number of elephant that I have hunted to date. If you were really inclined to know, you can search and find out without much difficulty.

My lifetime goal is 100 elephants before I am too old or inform to track them, and I am well on my way to aceiving that, given my age.

From your post:
"JPK, you are such a nice round target I promise to lay off, for a while."

Hmm, this reference to "round target" strikes close to home. I have put on 60lbs in the last two and a half years sitting behind my desk. It is the price I pay for what I do, which pays the bills for my family and for my elephant hunting addiction. But feel no need to lay off, criticism by rank novices rolls off my back. Surely I won't lay off when you write fantasies based on false premises and not founded on experience.

On that topic, I can readily disgree with one who has a different opinion than me when that opinion has been earned with hard won experience. Disagree as I might, that earned opinion will carry with me the weight it deserves, and the attendant respect it deserves.

FWIW, Bill Stewart has about as much experience as I do, maybe a little less, maybe a little more. But at that level of experience, an elephant or two, or three, or four, makes little difference. I disagree on some issues with Bill, but he has earned much respect.

Also FWIW, to hopefully put a dose of reality into your misquotations of my opinions, I use a scoped bolt rifle, or a scoped double rifled-barreled shotgun (for shotgun only deer hunting areas) for almost all of my four legged game hunting. For fun, I may use an apperature sighted lever rifle, or an open sighted double rifle, but I do not delude myself into believing that they are the better tool for the task at hand.

But for elephant hunting, an big bore, .458" or better, open sighted double rifle is the best tool.

{Editted to add that you might want to avoid meeting Ray, you may need dental work if you do.}

2nd Edit: I hope you noticed that I did not criticise you for blowing your one and only attempt at a frontal brain shot, only the fact that you so emphatically put forth that a scope was the only way, and that it made a big difference in your hunt. Clearly you blew the shot with your scoped rifle, it didn't make any contribution at all.

But blowing the shot is no big deal, the most experienced PH's blow them not infrequently. After blowing one early on in my elephant addiction, and kicking myself for a couple of days, I had conversations with Roger Whittall and Barry Duckworth. Both are "retired" Zimbabwe PH's who are now opperators. Barry was also a culling officer for Rhodesian Parks and has killed something like a thousand elephants. They were partners, now are neighbors in the Save Conservancy. Both told me to stop kicking myself because they both had plenty of blown brain shots in their day.

Using a big bore rifle, which I do, ~75% of the elephants that I have hunted dropped to the shot. Of those that did drop to the shot, most were brained, but several were just knocked down or down and out. I also killed outright, at the first shot, one elephant even though the bullet passed 1 1/2" over the brain, as later determined when we cut the skull open. (I am an unreformable bullet digger.) Skull fragments into the brain? Enough shock from 500 grains to turn off the brain? I don't know and never will, but the elephant was dead as a stone.

Since I use a double rifle with open sights, my follow up killing shot on those elephants only knocked down is very rapid and precludes a PH's bullet. But all of the ~25% that did not drop to the shot got my second barrel plus a PH's bullet to the heart.

I stopped but failed to kill one elephant that charged us in very thick jess in early May 2008, in Nyakasanga. We were not pursuing this elephant, he came upwind for us. I was closest, at seven yards, and I had the clearer shot. The PH tried to brain the elephant after my two shots stopped him, and the PH missed the brain as well. Thankfully, the elephant was turned and he departed at top speed. But that elephant eluded us, and we lost him after three days on his tracks. Loosing a wounded elephant, even one we didn't intend to shoot, that was a very, very low point in my life.

Last thing, I get sweaty palms and dry mouth when it is time to make the final approach to kill an elephant. The day that I don't is the day that I quit hunting elephant.

So, don't kick yourself too hard for blowing your first brain shot. But do switch to a proper big bore rifle, and do switch to open express or apperature sights. File the bead, never approach early or late with the sun in your face. That was your PH's screw up. He should have known better. Almost all of the time the direction you approach a bull is at least somewhat in your control, they are frquently alone or in a small group, and that means you can vary your approach by 10, 20, 30 degrees, maybe more, and keep the sun behind or to the side. And since elephants are the only game in the world you shoot up at, that is important. If you must approach into the sun, and you must shoot THAT elephant, then that would be the time for a heart shot.

So, go back and try it again. Do it a half dozen times in pretty quick succession, you will learn alot.

JPK


Last edited by JPK; 11/14/09.
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 73
K
Campfire Greenhorn
Offline
Campfire Greenhorn
K
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 73
Quote
That was your PH's screw up. He should have known better. Almost all of the time the direction you approach a bull is at least somewhat in your control, they are frquently alone or in a small group, and that means you can vary your approach by 10, 20, 30 degrees, maybe more, and keep the sun behind or to the side.


I am glad you said almost always JPK, as its not always. I was the PH on Josh's hunt, and the elephant where walking back on his trail in some really thick bush. The wind was just wrong for us to try anything else, so we waited for him to clear the brush at about 18-20 yards before Josh fired.

I must just add that I really enjoyed both my hunts with Josh, and even told my wife afterwards that I have hunted with few men that where bigger gentlemen.


Ndumo Hunting Safaris
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,954
A
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
A
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,954
Karl,
I am sure that Josh was a gentleman in your camp as you provided him with the instant gratification he needed while on the other hand I did not, and for that I am truly sorry, but I cannot guarentee every client success on a fair chase hunt it just doesn't always happen..On that ranch we got 9 bucks for 10 hunters.

I was not aware that Josh was upset until he flamed me for disagreeing with him on iron sights and that is all this is about. He had already booked a Mule deer hunt with me for this year and is going to go on that hunt.. In fact I did not even know that Sharpshooter was Josh when I replied to his challange to a shoot off, which I thought was in fun and I replied as such unfortunatly. I sincerely hope he kills a nice big Mule Deer hunt this year.

I also do not want to be associated with this "gentleman" again. He is arrogant, and into hiself and trying to pass himself off as an expert.


IC B2

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,867
S
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
S
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,867
If you get into a shooting match with Josh, bring money. He is a very fine rifle shot, quick and accurate with irons or glass. I shot silhouette competition with him on a monthly basis for several years and have seen him shoot on a number of occasions.

I have always found him to be straight up and straight forward, and unfailingly a gentleman either in the presence of men or in mixed company.

One thing he is not is politically correct. He will call BS at the drop of a hat.

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,082
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,082
Karl, don't get involved with atkinson. I am just having a bit of fun with the knothead. I wasn't mad about not killing anything on his cheapy little hunt at Seymour. I was a bit miffed about how he misrepsented the hunt. Plenty of country, honest people to deal with, etc. Wow was that a stretch. We spent more time spotlighting deer than anything else. The person who was to conduct the hunt was never around, so he had his Dad stick me in a stand next to the house to keep me away from anything shootable and from his other hunters. It was just a shank deal all around.

But I gave Ray the benefit of the doubt and let it go. I knew he had been from west Texas, so I figured he might know someone honest out there for a mule deer hunt, so I took another chance on him. I was much more careful to check out the hunt myself rather than take Ray's word for it.

The only reason I am going on this mule deer hunt is because the guy running it has nothing to do with Ray. Wayne tells me that he's never even met Ray and has been pretty specific about what hunting ground he has access to. I am not trusting Ray, I am trusting Wayne.

Then Ray feels free give me this "sonny" crap. Somehow he's the world's only authority on anything. So I reminded him he's not exactly the world's hunting authority. Great fun.

Stupid statement about instant gratification Ray. Anyone that knows me understands how silly a statement that is. When Karl and I were hunting elephant and it looked like we were not going to find a good bull I told Karl several times that it was not that big a deal, if we don't get a chance at a good bull, I'll just come back next year and we'll try again. And I had just a bit more money on the line on that bull elephant hunt than on Ray's cheapo fiasco in Seymour. Matter of fact, on the elephant hunt I as much concerned that my beautiful wife get to kill her first African animal as my elephant. Which she did.

Anyway, just a chance to have some fun with the old fart. And Ray, to help you with your reasoning skills. It is not two faced to say that you are a flawed, occasionaly dishonest knothead and to also write that I still in some way kind of way like you. To clarify it for you, a person is referred to as "two faced" if they say nice, kiss ass things to your face and then stab you in the back with other people. In this case I have told you exactly what I think of you to your face.

It has been a hoot, don't you think?

And for some odd reason there is a tiny part of me that still likes you, just a little bit. Maybe its because you said you were from west Texas. By the way, why did you leave? To many people hear how you do business? Ex-wife problems?

Anyway don't be so mad. Obviously I'll book with better outfitters in the future, but can't we still trade friendly barbs now and again? You are a lot of fun, and I am serious when I say that I would like to meet you in person. It would be hard to make happen, my schedule is always tight, but it would be pleasant wouldn't it?

Anyway, take your medicine, try to relax. We'll get to have these chances for fun in the future.

Sincerely yours,
josh



No words of mine can hope to convey to you the ringing joy and hope embodied in that spontaneous yell: �The Americans are coming; at last they are coming!�

I hadn�t the heart to disillusion them.

John "Pondoro" Taylor
Africa 1955
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,954
A
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
A
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,954
Josh,
Have your testosterone checked, take two aspirin, a valum and a nap....

One elephant and no deer, and your the worlds foremost authority on hunting..Oh yeah, you still mad at Butch because you don't like his rifles? You sonny boy are about the biggest whiner I have ever met and you have made a total fool out of yourself on this thread..I will try my best to survive your hunting with better outfitters...Have a nice hunt for Mule Deer and I mean that, I hope your successful and suspect you will be, but wish you had taken your deposit back as offered.

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,787
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,787
Gentlemen,

in mud wrestling it does not matter who wins - both parties get dirty.

Just a thought from the side lines.


Member of the Merry Band of turdlike People.



Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,082
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,082
Atkinson, did you say I haven't shot a deer? Did you mean just this week? I've been tagging out in Texas since 1976. For those of you counting that is many truck loads of deer. I've killed elk, well over two hundred feral hogs, probably 100 wild turkeys, misc. feral goats/sheep and 18 african game animals other than the elephant. I didn't realize you thought I was new to the hunting scene. I've also killed several dozen deer and twenty or so javalines with a longbow I made myself and am a lifetime member of the Professional Bowhunters society. And of all things in high school my cousin and I thought we were going to get rich selling live rattlesnakes. I caught many hundreds of them in those early years.

I certainly would never claim to be the worlds foremost authority on anything, but I am not new to hunting.

And Ray, if you think I have made a fool out of myself on this thread, send me a polite PM and I'll explain foolishness to you. Out of respect for you, I'll not do it here. Also I want you to settle up with me for you Seymour bunch screwing me. It is a tiny thing I want and I promise you will not be embarrassed or humiliated. But it does need to be taken care of privately.

I appreciate the well wishes on the mule deer hunt. If we see a good one I'll do my best to put a hole in it. You never did tell me if you thught I should take the 300 or the new little 7 mauser. Also, I have made a deal with Wayne for him to put my young nephew on a couple of javelines. He's nine and it will be the best thing that has ever happened to him.

If you want to put a polite end to this, just let me know.

Yours,
josh


No words of mine can hope to convey to you the ringing joy and hope embodied in that spontaneous yell: �The Americans are coming; at last they are coming!�

I hadn�t the heart to disillusion them.

John "Pondoro" Taylor
Africa 1955
IC B3

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,437
8
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
8
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,437
Originally Posted by SharpsShooter

If you want to put a polite end to this, just let me know....


Ray,
I'd let him keep going. You know what they say about letting someone have enough rope......

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,738
B
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
B
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,738
Ray, I think you ought to take Josh up on his offer and send him the PM. You stand to listen a little. This is beginning to look like the Son of SheepHunter thread, or "How I Screwed Another Client" You don't want to go there a second time.


Save an elk, shoot a cow.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,082
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,082
Brent's right, I don't want this thread to damage Ray any further. He's trying to run a business here and I am not. So I formally request we let it go. It wasn't as much fun as before anyway.

And just so that everyone knows that my offer to let this end politely was sincere, all I wanted was a warmly autographed picture of Ray on a good looking horse. I really like pictures of the old style cowboys in their old age. I was going to add Ray to my wall.

Anyway, I am done with this one and will report on the mule deer hunt when I get back.

josh


No words of mine can hope to convey to you the ringing joy and hope embodied in that spontaneous yell: �The Americans are coming; at last they are coming!�

I hadn�t the heart to disillusion them.

John "Pondoro" Taylor
Africa 1955
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,787
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,787
Godspeed, SharpsShooter, may you rest in peace. Prayers and condolences to friends and family.


Member of the Merry Band of turdlike People.



Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300
+1

Well Done CMG....


Ingwe


"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,643
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,643
Karl - That is a great video. I can't beleive how fast that charge started and finished. Professional hunter or not, that was very well done! Seeing that gives great credence to the theory of practicing instinctive or point shooting. You had less than 2 seconds to aim fire and keep track of that leopard.

Last edited by kevinh1157; 01/17/10.

Kevin Haile
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,259
L
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
L
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,259
Open sights are the primary sight on most of my serious hunting rifles. Scopes are something to take along in QD mounts. In good light, open sights are all any good shot needs to 200 yards. In snow, rain, mist and fog, they are indispensable and a scope is rather useless.

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,954
A
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
A
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,954
Well, Sharpshooter apparantly shot a real nice high horned Mule Deer, and he was happy about it according to the guide..I hope he was..

As to some of the comments I suppose everytime someone doesn't get an animal shot, were at fault...I hope I never have to book a hunt wherein a kill is guarenteed, because it would have to go against my principles...Hunting is hunting,not just killing.

Sheephunter had the same problems in Canada, in Africa and with his taxidermist, he was a swindler and we got him a record class Leopard, and a lot of very good buffalo, the guys at Dallas saw the pictures..I have nothing more to say about that BS.

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 21,601
B
BMT Offline
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
B
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 21,601
Originally Posted by Lee24
Open sights are the primary sight on most of my serious hunting rifles. Scopes are something to take along in QD mounts. In good light, open sights are all any good shot needs to 200 yards. In snow, rain, mist and fog, they are indispensable and a scope is rather useless.


Ummmmmm . . . . . ..

Lee, this is an African Cape Buffalo question, not an Alaskan question.

BMT



"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,259
L
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
L
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,259
I was stating what works for all dangerous game: cape buffalo, water buffalo, big bears, big cats, big wild boar, in all climates and weather. It is also true for tropical rain forests or northern coastal rain forests.

A red dot sight works very well if it is large enough to shoot with both eyes open and is either long enough to mount across your scope bases, or compact enough to mount on the front base alone.

If you don't think it works for cape buffalo, tell us why.

Page 5 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10 11

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
102 members (338reddog, 405joe, 7mm_Loco, 10gaugemag, 444Matt, 12 invisible), 1,396 guests, and 668 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,588
Posts18,397,869
Members73,815
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.197s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9292 MB (Peak: 1.1127 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 08:26:55 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS