Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats 375 WSM; 375 WSSM

I must say, I'm with you mtnman.......it was clear to me.

Mark H

Mtnman1:

If I'm not mistaken the original intent at the outset was a choice between .375 WSM and .375 WSMM and it was to be a "wildcat".

Wildcat implies a cartridge that is not loaded by any commercial manufacturer. Unless something got past me Winchester hasn't produced a .375 WSM nor a .375 WSSM. The WSSM came out in January 2004 in .25 caliber and there are a couple of lesser calibers. The nomenclature .375 WSM can't be applied to a wildcat for two above reasons. It could be called a .375 CVSM *( Ciber Virus Short Magnum ).

So far as TC/Encore rifle barrels are concerned I believe that they make around 17 different calibers. The .375 caliber selection is .375 Winchester, .375 H&H , .375 JDJ.

Now - To produce a .375 WSM or WSSM type case one of the three cartridges would be acquired. Then it would need to be sent out to a gunsmith for re-chambering. However, two of the calibers above are already too long - so a rechambering to WSM or WSSM would produce a double shoulder stepped case with two different diameters.

One of the cases potentially could allow re-chambering to a WSM or WSSM lengthwise. However, the diameter of a WSM - WSSM is over 1/2 inch at the base *( 0.555 ) as well as the shoulder *( 0.538 ). Cutting a larger ID in a barrel made for the .375 Winchester would encroach into the barrels thickness at the shoulder area and possibly also at the base as well, thinning and weakening the the chamber section.

Since apparently no .375 WSSM exists a custom chambering reamer would be required. The reamer maker would require a drawing and specifications. After reaming reloading custom dies would be required.

All rifles require proofing. I'm sure you know what that means. Who would proof shoot it?

There would be no load data. New loads would need to be developed. Since the wildcatter would not have any expensive lab CUP or piezoelectric equipment he most likely would not know what pressures were being produced. He could chronograph velocities but that would be useless for determing pressure.

When the wildcatter developed sticky bolt lift where would his pressures be ?? Would the thinned barrel/chamber even survive proofing ? How many shots would it take to create hairline invisible fractures and fissures in the steel? Remember that upon each firing the case AND chamber both bulge out then collapse back.

I believe you, or some other poster, termed the TC/Encore an "excellent" choice *( For a .375 WSM - WSSM ). We will step back and give you the podium. Please expound on your reasons that it is "excellent".

We're all ears.

Bill Tibbe

Wow this Flame is roaring! Wetibbe, I think you are getting off track..although you do have some valid points. Flaming at mtnman is out of line. Mtnman was correct in his discription of the Encore and it did appear from your earlier posts that you were unfamiliar with the Encore system and or confused about the original post. You do make some valid points on the ability of the Encore to handle the WSM size case because of wall thickness. It does not appear that TC or the custom makers offer the WSM case in the Encore at this time....I will admit that I am not an Encore shooter and not fully aware of all the custom options available at this time. The flow of the post, IMHO, seems to have started with Cyber wanting a 375 wildcat on the WSM or WSSM case and requesting input. He got it. Then it was posted that the rifle in question was an Encore. Other suggestions were made, including 375 H&H and to contact custom barrel makers. The option of a custom shop is a rechamber job as you describe or a new manufacture barrel in the desired round. If the Encore will handle the WSM case or if a custom maker will do it is unkown to me at this time......however it hardly seem to be the point. Those questions are easily answered by a few phone calls by the interested party to the proper source.

As to the issue of "wildcats"....why are in this thread? The fesability of a 375WSM is not unatainable. The cost of custom reamers and dies are part of the gig.......and NO BIG hurdle to a shooter looking for something different. Who cares if something already made will do the same thing......NOT the point of a wildcat......not the point of this thread.

Would I do a 375 on the WSM case...sure. On the WSSM case...no. But would someone else...maybe. Should they....why the H*** not?

The dircetion of this thread has spun off into hostile territory. If Cyber wants a 375 barrel for his ENCORE, factory or wildcat...they are out there. If Cyber or anyone else wants a 375 WSM or WSSM it can be done...but maybe not on an ENCORE. If the subject of "wildcats" winds you up to tight...then maybe there is a more suitable threat on this board for you.
Mark H

Let me start out by apologizing to CyberVirus for taking this thread away from your topic, and give a YMMV opinion on what you might consider. Check out a 23� or 24� Barrel chambered in the 375 Taylor from Bullberry or OTT as I think this will get you exactly where you want to be relative to performance and once you�ve got it you may never look past that to a custom bolt gun. A little extra barrel length on the Encore is generally unnoticeable as the short action length compensates for the extra carry length.

Markh, well said, and sorry I don�t normally get into this sort of petty verbal ping-pong, but what the hell, I�m a little bored waiting for the Turkey so I�ll volley this one more time as it seems my friend Wetibbe has �thrown the gauntlet�.

I believe if you were to actually read the chain of posts you'd realize that I responded to a direct question from CyberVirus when he asked



I believe I also clearly stated in that response that the WSMs weren't a good choice in an encore.



It appears that in several instances you're limited reading ability has not allowed you to grasp the entire content of CyberVirus�s questions but rather to focus on strictly those portions where you saw an opportunity to lecture in your self-aggrandizing fashion. Earlier in this chain you seemed entirely focused on the "Muzzle Loader" aspect, then attempted to excoriate him because of your lack of understanding. In a sincere attempt to give you a more informed position, I simply explained the merits of the Encore for his purposes. Then you attempted to extol your knowledge of T/C�s and lecture me. Bad choice, I don�t know nearly as much about bolt guns as some of the experts on this forum, but I have sense enough to keep my mouth shut and learn from the people who do.

When you realized you were in over your head, you decided to again try and change the topic in an attempt to focus on caliber choice. You then put forth a definition of "Wildcat" and proceed to proffer the flaws of your own skewed solutions of rechambering a 375 Winchester barrel. From there you proceeded to wade even deeper and imply that wildcatting in general is decidedly unsuitable due to lack of testing and valid load development and perhaps some inference to cost.

As I already stated, I don�t agree with a WSM in an Encore, but all of your arguments clearly ignore the fact that Virgin Valley did offer a 375 WSM in the Encore. Once again we stumble over you apparent lack of reading comprehension in addressing the man�s question.



Why don�t we ask Charlie Sisk if Custom Builders have access to adequate pressure testing equipment?

Despite all of your exegesis, I think it's all relatively simple. You didn't know what you were talking about, were in too big a hurry to demonstrate your superior knowledge and end us looking like an A$$.

Try reading and comprehending what the man asked, then offer him some sound �constructive� advice with some authentic knowledge or shut the [bleep] up and stop reading the wildcatting topics.

All that being said, Dave at IT&D Custom Gun in Minerva,OH builds winchester classics in 375 WSM. 330-868-6867.

see this thread: http://www.kifaru.net/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001321

Still don't see the advantage of one of these over the 375 Hawk/Scovill, although either conversion is a bit pricy.

dww

Cybervirus
I aint going to wade into this pile, but I'll throw in a little then I'm running. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
The TC will handle most high pressure rounds, 270 Win. in excess of 60,000 psi, 300 Win. Mag., etc. The strength of the action I dont think would be a concern.
As for the barrel being strong enough, measure the outside of the TC barrel (300 Win mag or similiar). I'm guessing it will be about 1.125 diameter. A Win 70 in a WSM or Ultra mag or any caliber for that matter will have a barrel shank of 1.000 of its made to spec, but usually they are a hair smaller. I havent saw a Winchester barrel split so they must be adequate.
I tell you what I would do if I were doing this myself......I'd make a 9.3 X 62 and be done with it. Great cartridge, ammo, brass, dies, load data, its all there. Get Lilja or Kreiger to supply a barrel blank then let the custom smiths "do their thang". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Yeah, I think doing a wildcat is a waste of time......thats coming from a man who invented the 9.3 Sisk and the 9.3 BS <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" />
Charlie

Hey MTNMAN........YOU DA MAN!

well said.

Mark H

Charlie:

Hi. Glad you gave some input.

It is regretable that the post had to take the turn which it did.

For your perusal and also Cyber Viruses here is the Fox Ridge Outfitters custom shop listing of barrels available to CV's Thompson Center single shot interchangeable barrels Encore which is presently equipped with a .50 caliber muzzle loading barrel.

http://www.foxridgeoutfitters.com/productpdfs/EncRifleCaliberChart10-27-2003.pdf

As can be seen they already chamber for the .375 H&H Magnum which means they make a heavy barrel and action which is available in steel blued but not stainless.

The 9.3x62 Mauser is indeed a very good caliber. And was, if not still, legal for Big Dangerous Game in some countries in Africa. For the uninitiated the case is very close to a 30-06 with some minor differences in case dimension close enough to allow forming it from 30-06 cases.

For anyone who aspires to own a "Short Mangnum" perhaps it would be enlightening to communicate with the Fox Ridge people.

Bill Tibbe

Sorry to raise this from the dead after such a long time. I just wanted to say thank you to all that contributed to this thread it was very informative. For the last year and a half or so I have been sitting on a SAUM that I originally wanted to make into a 350 rm then began thinking, ( something that often happens when I spend to much time here at the fire after hunting season is over). I began contemplating a 375 wsm in that action given todays premiums. But kicking it around even more I thought I may be limiting the true potential of a 375 by going with short case and not being able to get the bigger and heavier bullets of the .37 in there and still having enough powder in there to make them what they should be. After reading this , I have realized that there is no need to mess with what ain't broke. I believe I am going to go the 375 H&H route and be done with it in its original configuration.Cool factor does little for me ,dead animals on the ground turn my crank and I think I can get there with the old standard . Thanks guys , I mean that. Happy new year to you .

prolly a good plan.....a 375WSM in a light package has a tad bit of recoil, though my deer loads werent bad i never did work up a DG load for grins, i hit my recoil limit at a 235 speer over 60 of Varget had i kept it i would have put a different stock on it, the thin wristed Remmy Mountain rifle patterned stock was to small for my hands and i could never get a good grip. my shoulder could handle the recoil fine but my knuckles could only take so much pounding against the bolt and trigger guard