Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Original Remington Bronze Point ?

Seems to me that one of my friends has some of these
bullets in 8MM he has had them for a very long time.

I think the main "problem" with Bronze-Point was inconsistancy caused by the velosity ranges it was used.

A Bronze-Point (much like today's "tipped" bullets) was basically a hollow-point bullet (and a quite large hollow-point at that) that was "filled" by a bronze wedge. The "theory", if I recall correctly, was that the hard bronze tip would not deform in the magazine.....yet drive back into the bullet to start expansion at impact.

This sort of worked as planned....BUT.....if driven just a little too fast, they "exploded" like the wide hollow-point they actually were......and if driven just a little slow, the hard, pointed tip didn't drive back properly and drilled through much like a solid.

That was the downfall of the Bronze-Point. It operated "correctly" within a VERY narrow window. As I read this thread (and recalled exsperiences in the past with the Bronze-Point), those who report good performance or "explosive" results were generally using "fast" rounds like the .243 or .270. That's because they were actually (particularly at close range) being driven too fast for the design.

Those who report the tendency to "drill through" and not exspand properly were "generally" using a larger bore, slower caliber (.308, .30-06)....possibly at longer range. At that velosity range the bronze tip didn't always drive back enough to start exspansion and acted very much like a solid.

The Bronze-Point "failed" because it would only act properly at a very specific velosity (maybe 2800-3000fps) and mis-behave very badly outside that window. In that way it is very much like the "modern" tipped bullets. While they have a much larger "window" where they operate properly......get outside that design window and strange things happen.

I'm a "dinosaur", I guess, but I much prefer a lead tipped bullet where the I "know" what is going to happen every time. Exspansion should be controlled with jacket thickness....or "partitions" (and that isn't nessisarilly a Nosler thing). If I drive it a little slow....it still exspands at a reliable rate, and if I drive it a little fast, it exspands quick, but stops before exploding.

THAT was the reason the Bronze-Point was dropped.....not because it didn't work, but because it only worked at a very specific velosity and range.......and in the field we can seldom predict exactly how far we will be shooting.

They came onto the hunting world way back when good bullets were certainly the exception..The Bronzepoints were soft, shot flat, and you usually got instant kills and that always impresses the not so experienced..but if you used them a lot, sooner or later, depending on your aptitude, you realized that sometimes they exploded and sometimes they iced right through the animal, and every once in awhile, you lost a deer or elk, or had a hell of a tracking job ahead of you...They were not a consistent bullet..

I always prefered the Winchester Western Open Point Expanding, their answer to the Rem Bronze Point, the OPE always exploded but they did so inside the deer and they killed quickly and surely, but they were pitiful on elk in any weight. I am only referring to their use in the .270 and 30-06 btw..Limited use in the 300 H&H convienced me neither was a good choice.

Probably a better choice back then and not a bad one today was and is the great Rem Corelokt, and I always liked the RN best for performance on game..Win Silertips have always been good and bad, depending on the year and the constant level of changing them..they kept improving the good silvertips with bad one!!!

Jack O'Connor on Bronze Points:

"I like the bullet very much. ... Expansion is good but not too violent and I have never had any trouble in getting sufficient penetration. I killed a very big moose with the 130-grain B.P., shot him three times through the lungs, and found all the funny little bronze points stuck in the hide on the far side. I shot a grizzly in 1949 with the 180-grain B.P., loaded to about 3,200 f.p.s., in a .300 Weatherby Magnum. Range was about 125 yards. Grizzly pitched over on his nose and that was that. The hole behind the shoulder on the far side was the size of a saucer and there was a fan-shaped spray of blood, rib fragments, and bits of lung 3 feet long and 3 feet wide. With that combination the hunter can go after grizzly with about as much risk as hunting woodchucks with a Swift." --p.233, The Big-Game RIfle, 1952.

--Bob

I have a partial box (the old Red one with the rivet sides)of the 30 cal 180 gr Bronze Point. Never killed anything with them though.

JD338

I shot a previously crippled smallish deer thru the shoulders with one of those out of a .30/06, he went down immediately. He probably would have died real slow otherwise, some jackass had shot his lower jaw off. About 90 yards, give or take.
I wish I could still get the .270/130 component bullets, I really liked them for Missouri deer.

My Father thought that the 90 grain Bronze Point Remington and Peters 244 ammo was the best deer bullet that R/P ever loaded for the 244 and 6MM. When he bought me my 1st deer rifles around 1969/1970, 1 of the 2 rifles was a Remington 660 in 6MM. He bought around 25 boxes of the 90 grain Bronze Point factory loads, probably all that he could find in northern New England, so that I'd have plenty of deer ammo for the next 25 years. I started handloading in 1970, so I only used a few boxes of that ammo and when I cleaned out my Parents' home in 2004, I found a stash of that ammo in old Ballentine beer 24-count cases the attic.

Jeff

I have an old 50 count green in color box of .277 bronze points that came from Kerr's in, of all places, Hollywood. Price on the bottom of the box is 4.95.

jun..,

Interesting responses. My experience in the 60's with bronze points was they worked like a full metal jacket. Later users say they open quite well.

My first experience with ballistic tips showed they blew up on impact. Later Bal Tips penetrate very well and I use them alot.

So it seems bullets have evolved and the best thing to do is test the box you have and see what you've got.

O

I found some references in Sportsman's Arms and Ammunition Manual and Complete Book of Rifles and Shotguns both by JOC. On p173 of my Complete Book, there are cross sections of six bullets, with one being the 180g Bronze Point. It appears the jacket is the same width from the cannelure to the tip, maybe just slightly tapered as you get to the top, not much if at all. If it is not tapered or maybe just too thick to begin with, then that might explain comments about it not opening up.

O'Connor states in Sportsman's Arms p44, "I have respect for the Remington Bronze Point bullet in 150 and 180 gr. for the .30-06. I used the 150gr version almost exclusively from 1927 to 1934. It shot flat and accurately, and its action on game was very reliable. In construction, it is a hollow-point bullets with a bronze wedge set in the cavity to retain the spitzer shape and to open up and split the bullet when resistance was encountered. It is a curious circumstance that those little bronze wedges usually penetrate more deeply than any other part of the bullet. I have picked many of them from under the hide on the far side of large animals."

1927 to 1934 was a long time ago for a "tipped" bullet. I didn't realize they made them that long ago. It's possible that Rem. changed the manufacturing processes many times throughout their production, effectively resulting in "different" bullets.

I think I'll put them into some bound papers and take a look.

I suspect that TexasRick is correct. I loved the BronzePoints way back when, but they cost too much for a poor boy like me to use them very often. I did successful kill mulies and elk with them from my 30-06 and they were very accurate as I remember. However I do remember several arguements around the local gun club back then, that they just wouldn't kill an antelope, and TexasRick's performace envelope would be a good explaination for that.

I have two boxes of 130-gr. .270 WCF Rem/Peters Bronze Point ammo from the '60s I bought a few years back off the curio shelf at the local gun shop.

I made the mistake of running one through my rifle and the case basically evaporated (Caseless ammo, anyone? ) So, now I'm just gonna pull 'em all and work up my own loads. Should be fun, and I need a little project.

Scott