Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Pros and Cons of E.R. Shaw Mark VII

When JB wrote up his 6.5-06 in Rifle or Handloader, I thought that I'd order a MK7 and give it a try. I tried and tried and tried to buy 1, but Shaw's web site didn't have a menu to order from and the customer service guy who I emailed with didn't seem to care if I bought a rifle or not. Here I was, trying to buy a product from them and they didn't seem to give a [bleep], so I figured that once they had my $$, they would even care less, if less was even possible.

Based on my experience, it appears to me that E.R. Shaw has made a half-assed commitment, IOW almost NO commitment, to the rifle business. If so, why would I buy from them or recommend that anyone buy from them? Maybe my experience was unique or maybe I'm thin-skinned or maybe Shaw needs to hire somebody who knows the gun business. I do know that they won't be cashing any of my checks anytime soon.

Jeff

Jeff,

Shaw is only about 20mi from me. The Savage format is one that I don't find attractive, however we have all seen more than a couple that were great shooters.

They used to be a little backroom gunsmith business. In the last few years their business has grown considerably along with the type of work they do. The MK7 is but one example.

They are still essentially a small gunsmith business and are someplace on the growth learning curve. No excuses for them, but I have a feeling of what is going on down there. Then again it just may be a Burgh thang. Also wouldn't be the first GS I've come across who was short on proper phone/email etiquette.

Again, Shaw is not some big rifle company with all the bells, whistles and employee training programs. More like a mom and pop rifle company. You possibly already knew that, but if not just some background.

Addition: The Savage format is one that has a reputation of accuracy. If that is what I was after, and could get it for just over $600 dollars, I would be willing to compromise on some of the other friendly extras. Ever dealt with Browning?

I seem to recall that a few years ago I read articles touting how Savage had tightened quality control and was producing their own excellent barrels.

What happened?

Paul

There have been a lot of small rifle builders come and go, so Shaw might find that they can't reach a sustained volume of production that is high enough to at least break even financially.

I think that it is very hard to try and order a MK7, as there isn't any menu to work off, just a big list of possibles and while the barreled action might be OK, the stocks look pretty cheesey to me. When I was trying to order a MK7 rifle, I asked if I could just order the barreled action and have the stock value discounted from the total price, but that wasn't an option. When you place an order for a McMillan stock, you know what you've contracted for and if it arrives with differences you can work with McM to get it right. I don't feel comfortable with the MK7 ordering process, too much ambiguity for me.

I don't have any skin in this game, but I am a guy who regularly spends $25K per year on shooting sports equipement and I can't see any portion of that going to Shaw anytime soon.

I have never dealt with Browning on repairs, but have been happy with my parts orders from their operation in Arnold, MO. My interest in Browning rifles pretty much ended when FN stopped making them and I'm generally a Remington 870,1100, and 3200 shotgun shooter, with the odd SKB thrown into the sporting clays mix.

Jeff

+1

I've seen a 308 that fouled so much if you wanted to shoot a deer with a 150 grain bullet you needed to fire a 180.

When I went after it with JB compound the goop that came out looked like copper based never seize. Like this:

http://www.tcputhai.com/site/images/product/Thi-JAX-Grease-No2-2.jpg

Not sure if they still do it this way but Savage was one of the few (only?) manufacturers that still practiced barrel straightening, and they did it well. But it just seems that this would almost guarantee some extra stress to the barrel that may show up as the barrel gets hot.

Shaw does not do this to my knowledge, so one less uncontrolled factor in the accuracy equation.

I agree after looking at their website it needs an upgrade and there is little reason to not allow one to purchase a stand alone action.

Just trying to give you some local knowledge about why your experience may have been the way it was and where they currently are. They have been around a long time and appear to be doing a few things that will assure the future will be the same. However, it would be surprising if they are ever equated to a full line custom house.

The Bowning question was only to show that when you call the big boys, customer service in not necessarily proportional to size or success.

I have no connection or allegiance to Shaw, but they have been around here a long time and have been successful enough to make the effort to expand their base. I wish them well.

I had a phone conversation with Carl Behling, the president of E.R. Shaw, after the last time their website and ordering process came up on the Campfire. Carl said that they know about the deficient website and are working on it, and if anybody has any problems to call and ask for him personally.

I believe I posted this info once already.

I recall that post.

From what I know there is no issue with being able to buy just the action either, especially since the stock actually purchased seperately from them if you choose to. If you look over the options for the rifle you can see having the stock is one of them. The wood stock I believe is the Boyd's JRS, they have a good reputation as far as I have ever heard.


I just think some folks like to complain about things that they might not ever do.

I've looked at the Shaw web site and am left empty. The site is attractive, but pricing info is absent. I like the concept, and the W-I-D-E variety of calibers available is very interesting.

But the Savage action is not attractive (to me) and the two Savages I've owned were very accurate to boot. So, other than a otherwise unavailable cartridge, why go the Shaw route?

Thomas Magnum,

Why would you call a fellow campfire member a liar?

Not cool, man.

I am not calling someone a liar, I am just stating facts.
I sat in the E.R. Shaw booth at the NRA show here in Phoenix last year for about an hour, picking those guys brains about this very rifle. I aked quite a lot of questions and got answers to all of them. I asked specifically about the situation with the stocks, because I wanted something else. They told me the stock was an option and it was not a problem to omit the stock. If you wanted the stock it was additional $$$ added to the base price. If you didn't want it, well it wasn't then.


I personally am pretty interested in it. I can't think of anywhere else that I can get a trued action in just about any caliber for $699 ready to rock. To me thats a good deal.

Probably different people representing E.R. Shaw who just weren't on the same sheet of music or something has changed since I asked. I still have the emails from the guy at Shaw who told me that buying just a barreled action wasn't an option. He also couldn't tell me how much each stock option would cost, so I couldn't pick the cheapest option.

The laminated stocks are Boyd's JRS, not my favorite laminated stock, but I have no idea whose synthetic stocks they use.

Jeff

"But the Savage action is not attractive (to me) and the two Savages I've owned were very accurate to boot.




djs, did you mean to say the rifles were not accurate or were accurate. I am easily confused.

Sorry like2shoot - I meant to say that the Savages were very accurate. One was a heavy barrel 308 Winchester that always grouped in less than 3/4" and the other was a 223 Remington (heavy barel) that regularly grouped in less than 1/2". The rifles shot like wildfire (which I liked) but the actions were ugly and turned me off.

I bumped this to the top for a friend who was considering ordering one. He has decided build one instead. Today he bought a LH 700 243 and will source the rest of the parts shortly.

All one has to do if they are serious is email Chris at Shaws, he will send the menu &pricing. There is a lot of bad pr about Shaw barrels out there, as shooters NEVER forgive nor forget. Shaw USED to have worn, oldmachines & bad QC. It was bought by a nephew who bought all CNC machines and is turning out tight barrels. It may take the best part of a year to get a Shaw rifle, but to get custom calibers, with awesome accuracy, for short $, it was worth it to me.

PS the change in ownership & standards at Shaw is 10+ years old.