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#3871952 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: BuckeyeSpecial]
UncleJake Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 918
Loc: Los Anchorage, AK
It's for the same reason you don't see any 160 gr. BTSP's in .270. Nosler does make a very nice 160 gr. Partition, but notice the shape? And guess what that bullet's market share is.....

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#3871965 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: ingwe]
x2mosg Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 1361
I honestly don't know why I even bothered typing that. It was an utter waste of time, as are these few words.

Do mind your remarks about OUR service men, smarA$$ or otherwise.



Edited by x2mosg (03/08/10)

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#3871974 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: UncleJake]
30338 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 7165
Loc: Denver
Since I am no engineer, here is a link for twist rate. http://www.realguns.com/calculators/riflingtwist.html

A 130 .257 is going to have to be 1.5 or so inches and I am doubting you can get much more than 2850. That puts the twist requirement at 1 in 7.9. Which is really close to my 260 with a 1 in 8 twist running 140s.

Play with a 100 or 110 with that calculator and you start seeing the twist rates that are offered by manufacturers.

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#3871975 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: MontanaMarine]
ingwe Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 12/20/08
Posts: 57320
Loc: Southwestern Montucky
Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine


A 130gr roundnose out of a 1/10 twist 25-06 might work, but what's the point?


Exactamundo!..You don't need a degree in Rocket Surgery to know the BC on that one would turn it into a rainbow trajectory sooner than you had wished...


Ingwe
_________________________
" Tell 'em we done it for Dixie and nothing else...."

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#3871983 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: x2mosg]
HawkI Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 15958
Loc: The Hawkeye State
FWIW I shot a few 125gr. Extended Range Remingtons IIRC at some hogs...
Don't recall the BC, but if they coulda made 'em 130 they woulda for THEIR 1-10 twisted rifles......

David, excellent post!
_________________________
" 'Hey look at me!' Who gives a schit about YOU. There's ten other guys out there".
Dick Butkus


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#3871993 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: x2mosg]
MontanaMarine Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 09/25/01
Posts: 8765
Loc: Canyon Ferry, Montana
The guys at Sierra who helped me out were not what I'd call pencil pushers. They seemed to me like shooting/hunting enthusiasts (I dare say loony's).

When I called about stability of the 190s in a 1/12 308 Win, the guy got back to me in a couple days. He made up a deliberately slow load, about 2000 fps, and checked it in their underground facility in one of those machine-looking contraptions. Load shot 1/2" at 200 yards. I got the feeling those guys truly enjoyed that sort of stuff.

http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=techservice&page=ballistictech

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#3871994 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: HawkI]
Waders Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 10/25/00
Posts: 7480
I only wish to add that Shane has kept remarkably cool through the course of this thread. Well done!
_________________________
Wade

"Let's Roll!" - Todd Beamer 9/11/01.

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#3871999 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: Waders]
ingwe Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 12/20/08
Posts: 57320
Loc: Southwestern Montucky
Shane is a cool cool dude!

Ingwe
_________________________
" Tell 'em we done it for Dixie and nothing else...."

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#3872002 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: ingwe]
MontanaMarine Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 09/25/01
Posts: 8765
Loc: Canyon Ferry, Montana
It takes a fair amount to get me worked up.

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#3872007 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: MontanaMarine]
ingwe Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 12/20/08
Posts: 57320
Loc: Southwestern Montucky
Good on ya'

As you can see, it just takes someone flipping schitt to one of the good guys to get me worked up...


Ingwe
_________________________
" Tell 'em we done it for Dixie and nothing else...."

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#3872018 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: MontanaMarine]
HawkI Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 15958
Loc: The Hawkeye State
Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine
The guys at Sierra who helped me out were not what I'd call pencil pushers. They seemed to me like shooting/hunting enthusiasts (I dare say loony's).

When I called about stability of the 190s in a 1/12 308 Win, the guy got back to me in a couple days. He made up a deliberately slow load, about 2000 fps, and checked it in their underground facility in one of those machine-looking contraptions. Load shot 1/2" at 200 yards. I got the feeling those guys truly enjoyed that sort of stuff.

http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=techservice&page=ballistictech



I think in their last manual they posted an on target velocity schematic of such a load for B.C. testing at 200yds, with twist a consideration...


Edited by HawkI (03/08/10)
Edit Reason: twist
_________________________
" 'Hey look at me!' Who gives a schit about YOU. There's ten other guys out there".
Dick Butkus


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#3872025 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: ingwe]
x2mosg Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 1361
Yeah, Shane stayed cooler than I for sure. Don't knock on the boys in uniform, or even make comments that might be taken that way. That I can't tolerate. We here in Bama might be hicks, but we stand with our soldiers. Dont think I've ever engaged in conversation with Shane on this board, but he has my respect for his service, if for no other reason.

Shane,

That comment was made in a state of light "rage", you might say. The boys at Sierra have to be shooters to turn out the great products that they do. I feel the same about pretty much all bullet mfgs. I deal with engineers, structural, every day. Some are genuine pencil pushers, others have been there, done that. There is a huge difference in the two. Thanks.

David

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#3872037 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: efw]
Mule Deer Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 36643
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
Sierra also has a very good twist-calculation calculator (much more sophisticated than Greenhill) in their ballistics program.

I just ran a .25 130 Ballistic Tip (theoretical bullet, based on the length of a 115 BT multipled by the 130/115 weight factor) through the Sierra calculator, at a muzzle velocity of 3000, which might be a little generous. The answer was a 1-8" twist. This agrees entirely with what Shane said, which is not surprising.

Our new "friend" Buckeyespecial could also have obtained Sierra's ballistic program and used it to search for the result himself, but instead chose to ask his question on an open forum and then sarcastically question the answers he got, without having a clue about the backgrounds of anybody who was answering. I am also gratified that everybody else pretty much kept their cool in the face of such blunt rudeness.
_________________________
John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#3872059 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: BuckeyeSpecial]
Steelhead Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 73102
Loc: Between Glib and Flippant
Originally Posted By: BuckeyeSpecial
Mr. Montana Marine et al:

Read the original post, a 130 grain bullet in 25 caliber; I will now qualify it as a 130 grain "hunting" bullet and not a VLD.

Not trying to be a smart guy, just trying to gain an answer with my preferred level of credibility.... looks like you guys don't 'really" know.

Despite your illustrious artillery experience, I see no formula, nor a reference to a ballistics engineering degree (perhaps you have one) So, I guess I will call Sierra someday....


Unfortunately I don't share Shane's coolness, so you can shove a 130 bullet right up your ass Phuckeye.
_________________________
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#3872075 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: Steelhead]
x2mosg Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 1361
Way to go Steely! Now I wish I had left my first post up. I ain't about to retype it. I ain't that mad anymore. Shane's cool, so I'm cool.

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#3872081 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: x2mosg]
Steelhead Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 73102
Loc: Between Glib and Flippant
They seem to be working overtime at the tool factory of late, fortunately the ability to make a sharp one has eluded them thus far.
_________________________
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#3872095 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: Steelhead]
MontanaMarine Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 09/25/01
Posts: 8765
Loc: Canyon Ferry, Montana
Most of us post up to seek or share info/comraderie. Some post only really looking for a good ol' pissin' match.

I've 'gone there' a time or two, but it's not really my thing. Entertaining to read sometimes.

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#3872956 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: MontanaMarine]
kyreloader Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 1538
Loc: Kentucky
Not that I feel compelled to answer Phuckeye's post, but here is a picture of some 25 caliber bullets.



The picture shows bullets that I have loaded for in .25-06. The two bullets to the far right were made by Wildcat Bullets. The second from right is 125g ULD and far right, 130g bonded bullet. As you can see with the bonded bullets, they are quite long.

In my 1:10 twisted barrel, they didnt shoot well. Not sure if a coincidence or a twist issue. No keyholing though.

So to answer your question, Wildcat Bullets did make a 130g bullet. With new ownership, not sure if they still are.

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#3873157 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: Steelhead]
tzone Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 30628
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: Steelhead
Originally Posted By: BuckeyeSpecial
Mr. Montana Marine et al:

Read the original post, a 130 grain bullet in 25 caliber; I will now qualify it as a 130 grain "hunting" bullet and not a VLD.

Not trying to be a smart guy, just trying to gain an answer with my preferred level of credibility.... looks like you guys don't 'really" know.

Despite your illustrious artillery experience, I see no formula, nor a reference to a ballistics engineering degree (perhaps you have one) So, I guess I will call Sierra someday....


Unfortunately I don't share Shane's coolness, so you can shove a 130 bullet right up your ass Phuckeye.


grin

and as we like to say in WI....WTF's a Buckeye.
_________________________
still got a body that looks 19...She's a rock 'n roll dive bar beauty queen.

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#3873254 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: tzone]
exbiologist Online   content
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 02/11/09
Posts: 5127
Loc: Colorado
The one thing that hasn't been mentioned so far regarding twist, and why slower twists work better in larger calibers is because twist affects the surface speed. If you spin a .35 caliber bullet in a 1:10 at the same velocity as a .25 caliber through a 1:10, the outside diameter of the .35 will be spinning much faster than the .25 The center of the bullet will be spinning at the same rpm, but not the outside of the bullet.
So that's why it takes such a fast twist in .22 calibers to stabilize bullets with a lower sectional density, length, or BC than a .25 cal of the same weight.
Make sense?
And, no I'm not a ballistic engineer. If I was, then the term for "outside diameter speed" would have come to me, but it didn't.
_________________________
"For some unfortunates, poisoned by city sidewalks ... the horn of the hunter never winds at all" Robert Ruark, The Horn of the Hunter


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#3873267 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: BuckeyeSpecial]
savage62 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 6630
Loc: Mi
If you need a 130 gr for a 25-06 just buy a 270

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#3873289 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: exbiologist]
mathman Online   content
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 22495
Quote:
The center of the bullet will be spinning at the same rpm, but not the outside of the bullet.


You are mixing angular and linear quantities here.

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#3873317 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: mathman]
exbiologist Online   content
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 02/11/09
Posts: 5127
Loc: Colorado
I know, help me out with the terminology. But the idea is correct right? Larger diameter bullets need less twist than little bullets, which is why a .22 needs a 1:7 for long match bullets and .26 needs a 1:8 for even longer match bullets, and a .338 does fine with a 1:10 with 300 grain match bullets.
Right?
_________________________
"For some unfortunates, poisoned by city sidewalks ... the horn of the hunter never winds at all" Robert Ruark, The Horn of the Hunter


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#3873483 - 03/08/10 Re: Why No 130 Grain Bullet For The 25/06 [Re: Steelhead]
FVA Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 7319
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Steelhead
Originally Posted By: BuckeyeSpecial
Mr. Montana Marine et al:

Read the original post, a 130 grain bullet in 25 caliber; I will now qualify it as a 130 grain "hunting" bullet and not a VLD.

Not trying to be a smart guy, just trying to gain an answer with my preferred level of credibility.... looks like you guys don't 'really" know.

Despite your illustrious artillery experience, I see no formula, nor a reference to a ballistics engineering degree (perhaps you have one) So, I guess I will call Sierra someday....


Unfortunately I don't share Shane's coolness, so you can shove a 130 bullet right up your ass Phuckeye.


Sums it up quite well. Guy deserves a in person, back of the neck held, face in the dirt.....held long.
_________________________

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