24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 9
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 9
Guys,

Just acquired a Schultz and Larsen 7x61 Sharp&Hart and was wondering if anybody had some load info for me.I used 63gr of H4350 and 140 sierra game kings pretty good luck.It's a 1 in 12 twist so I think I should stay under 160 grains? Any help would be appreciated.


thanks, Adam

HR IC

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950
R
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
R
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950
Adam
P O Ackley lists that 63 grain load that you are using with the 145 grain bullet for a velocity of 3187. He also lists a load of 66 grains of 4831 for a velocity of 3128. I would guess that would be H4831.

Fred

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540
Adam,

Very nice rifle and a very nice cartridge to go with it.

I have a resource which has over 300 loads for the 7x61.

Instead of posting them all here why don't you PM me and I can send them to your email.

Ken


The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,901
R
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
R
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,901
Beautiful rifle, great cartridge!!!

Uses a very similar belted magnum cartridge case much like the .264 Win. Mag, 7mm Remington Mag., .308 Norma Mag., .338 Win. Mag., .358 Norma Mag. and .458 Win. Mag., the 7x61 S&H cartridge appears to have a double-radius shoulder much like the 7mm Weatherby cartridge.

Generally, rifles chambered for the 7mm S&H cartridge are free-bored like the rifles chambered for the Weatherby cartridges. I believe your Shultz and Larsen is free-bored, but to be sure... check it out.

Full 7mm Sharpe & Hart maximum loads REQUIRE a free-bored rifle to be safe. Reduce all listed 7x61 S&H loads by at least 5% if the rifle lacks a free-bored barrel.

My old reloading manual (circa 1970) shows a maximum load of IMR4350 (64.0 grains, a compressed load) behind a 139 grain Hornady Spire Point bullet sparked by Remington 9� primers in Norma cartridge cases yielded a muzzle velocity of 3257 fps out of their test rifle, a Shultz & Larsen 65DL w/ a 24" barrel which had a 1:10 twist.

My reloading manual shows loads for the 120, 139, 150, 165 & 175 grain jacketed bullets. If you can't find any other source of loads, PM me indicating what weight bullets you intend to use and I'll send you this old reloading information I have, but remember... these loads use the components circa 1970... and current components may or may not yield the same pressures/velocities. smile


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.


It's smart to hang around old guys 'cause they know lotsa stuff...

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540
Good post Ron.

It reminded me to look back at my old reloading manuals and the 7x61 is listed in both my 1967 Hornady and 1967 Lyman manuals.

To the OP, just PM me and I can get you more info than you could possibly use.


The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.
IC B2

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,570
E
efw Offline
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
E
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,570
Aren't there two cases that fit the rifle with different internal dimensions because of Mr. Hart's over engineering of the original cartridge?

I think that makes a difference in the amount of UMPH you want to give your handloads, too...

SWEET RIFLE!

I'm turning green here...

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540
You are absolutely right efw. In about 1963 Norma reduced case wall thickness by .005" and thinned the web .020" thereby increasing case capacity 5 grains or so.
The outside dimensions remained constant.
Unless you have a supply of pre 1963 brass, all 7x61 brass will be the new design.
Ken Waters reports that the new cases are still very strong and durable.


The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,239
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,239
Adam,

If you get to likin' those 140 Sierra's, let me know. I've got 400 that I wont be using.

We need to see a pic of that baby...


Originally Posted by archie_james_c
I should have just
bought a [bleep] T3...


Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 9
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 9
We'll see if I can get pics of em both in, the 65dl and the 54j side by side.

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 9
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 9
Ron_T

Thanks on the great info,but could you please explain free bore and how I would check it. I assume it's something to do with bullet jump to the lands or something with the belt. I'm loading these to fit in the magazine well, because that's what matters...Right? I do a fair amount of reloading but this is my first belted cartridge.

nsaqam thanks for all the info, I just hope it will be enough to get me started! shocked

again thanks,

Adam



IC B3

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 16,540
I'm not Ron_T but yes, freebore is a section of unrifled barrel ahead of the chamber before the rifling begins.
Freebore has been used for years by Weatherby as a means of loading to very high pressure to increase velocity without causing the load to develop dangerous pressure due to bullet friction with the rifling.
It is good for that purpose but is not always conducive to the finest accuracy.

So you did get those 300 loads I sent then huh? grin


The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,320
1
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
1
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,320
"Thanks on the great info,but could you please explain free bore and how I would check it"

I am not Ron T, but I know how to check for freebore and for how much.

Barely squash the mouth of a fired case and start a flat base bullet in backwards. Just start it enough to keep it in place. Instead of bending my case mount, I barely bump it in the sizing die just enough so that I can start a bullet by hand and it will stay put.

Chamber the empty cartridge. The flat base of the bullet will contact the lands and push the bullet on into the case.

Measure the amount the bullet is sticking out of the case and this is your throat length.

I am not sure at which point normal throating ends and free boring begins. My guess is that anything over 1/2 inch of throat length would be considered free bore.

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,901
R
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
R
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,901
Originally Posted by nsaqam
I'm not Ron_T but yes, freebore is a section of unrifled barrel ahead of the chamber before the rifling begins.
Freebore has been used for years by Weatherby as a means of loading to very high pressure to increase velocity without causing the load to develop dangerous pressure due to bullet friction with the rifling.
It is good for that purpose but is not always conducive to the finest accuracy.

So you did get those 300 loads I sent then huh? grin


+1 exactly... smile

Ron T.


It's smart to hang around old guys 'cause they know lotsa stuff...

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 9
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 9
Thanks for all the help guys,I just got twenty more pieces of brass so I'm ready to roll.

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1
J
New Member
Offline
New Member
J
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1
Does anybody know if the new schultz and larsen classic rifles are free bored?

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,966
L
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
L
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,966
I'm pretty sure all the S&L 7x61s were freebored. Which model is yours?

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 150,067
Campfire Savant
Offline
Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 150,067
Iconic rifle. I’ve never seen one.

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,048
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,048

Originally Posted by Ron_T

. . . the 7x61 S&H cartridge appears to have a double-radius shoulder much like the 7mm Weatherby cartridge.


Negative on that . . . (confirmed by drawings in an older Horny Manual and Ken Howell's Custom Cartridges book)

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,966
L
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
L
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,966
I have a NULA 7x61 and had a S&L Model 60. The Model 60 was freebored and you could seat the bullets way out. I was surprised the 1 in 12" twist would shoot a 160 Partition with decent accuracy. The freebore allows using about 2-4 grains more powder for slightly less velocity than I get from the NULA, both guns with 26" barrels.

I'd stay away from much of the old data; seems a bit too hot and I doubt much if any of it was pressure tested. Based solely on my limited experience, if you get the old published figures of 3,100 fps with a 160 grain bullet, that would be a very warm, possibly dangerous load. I've found about 2,900 fps is tops with a 160 grain. Still a great cartridge that will do about anything the 7mm Remington Magnum will and use a little less powder than the Remington cartridge with most loads. And, it doesn't have that dull look...

There was an update on the 7x61 data a few years back on handload. com (or something similar); anyway the online loading data deal that Wolfe Publishing Co. does.

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 75
P
Campfire Greenhorn
Offline
Campfire Greenhorn
P
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 75
The Lyman 44 manual from 1967 used a S&L Model 65DL for development with a 1:10 twist 24" barrel. They note that the rifle is free-bored.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
692 members (12344mag, 160user, 12308300, 1234, 163bc, 06hunter59, 71 invisible), 2,718 guests, and 1,268 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,617
Posts18,398,496
Members73,817
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.227s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8950 MB (Peak: 1.0477 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 14:39:52 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS