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#3988073 - 04/12/10 Three position safety on a Mauser?
RipSnort Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 11/23/03
Posts: 2052
How much would I expect to pay to have a Winchester M70-style three position safety installed on a Mauser action such as an FN or CZ?

Thanks, RS

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#3988093 - 04/12/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: RipSnort]
safariman Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 27493
Loc: All over the place! missing Af...
I have two so equipped, but it has been a while since I did one. Whatever the cost this is a neccesary and much preffered upgrade in my view, I think it will run you about $150-250 depending on WHICH 3 position safety is used (Gentry, LaPour, NECG, Brownells) and what your gunsmith charges for the install. My CZ550 MAgnum has an Ed LaPour unit that he installed and my FN has a Gentry installed by Jim rector of LaGrande Oregon.
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#3988099 - 04/12/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: RipSnort]
Aileinduinn Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 1713
Loc: Coulee Region WI
You can pick up a Chapman or Wisner that require a little extra machining that will cost you around $30 plus an hour or so of your smith's time. The guy who does my work would probably charge around 75 bucks plus parts.


Edited by Aileinduinn (04/12/10)
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#3988321 - 04/12/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: safariman]
SuperCub Online   content
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5613
Loc: NB / Canada
Originally Posted By: safariman
I think it will run you about $150-250 depending on WHICH 3 position safety is used (Gentry, LaPour, NECG, Brownells) and what your gunsmith charges for the install.

Any preference in the aforementioned safeties? The action in question is an FN (JC Higgins).

I've had good luck with NECG in the past, but haven't used their safeties.

thx
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#3988479 - 04/12/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: SuperCub]
Steelhead Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 81694
Loc: Between Glib and Flippant
I run 2 position side swing safeties on 98's, not sure what the bloody attraction to 3 position is.
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#3988514 - 04/12/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: Steelhead]
Jkob Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 2155
Loc: minnesota
If You are intent on the three position ones, steer clear of the Gentry and Dakota. They have timing problems and are a bear to install. I offer the two postion ones for $105.

Jim
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#3988577 - 04/12/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: Jkob]
Savage_99 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 14305
I prefer a three position safety that locks the bolt, allows a hot chamber to to unloaded on safe along with testing ammo on safe. The M70 design that also controls the firing pin is superior to just a trigger safety.

The old style safety thats only two position that many mauser sporters came with like the Higgins are difficult to work by a right hander, click with noise when let off with just the thumb and of course don't control anything unloading a hot chamber.

I have had some 'mausers' converted to the M70 style three position. They are Dakotas. They work well but not as smooth as a Kimbers. My local smith installed them. Sure it costs some but it brings a nice rifle up to speed.

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Savage_99 Offlin

Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 14197
Keep a lookout for one already finished and for sale.

I have never been disappointed with how they turned out! The delivery is also much better.

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#3988593 - 04/12/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: Savage_99]
Steelhead Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 81694
Loc: Between Glib and Flippant
A two position side swing safety locks the bolt, but you can't work the action with the safety on. Don't see that as any big issue.
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#3988623 - 04/12/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: Jkob]
TC1 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 6690
I've used most of them. Once installed there is very little difference in any of the 3-postion safeties other than looks. The installation is the determining factor as to how smooth it is. Most gunsmiths charge between $75-$100 to install one. As to which one to buy. My advice is to find a gunsmith first, then buy the safety he recommends. Some Smiths prefer to work with a particular brand more than others.

I've had more Dakota safeties installed than any other brand and have been very happy with them. The one Gentry I own has been perfect from day one. Gentry will also install what they sell.

I think the nicest looking one I've ever used was a Stuart Satterlee model. It holds the original lines of the M98 bolt shroud but still has a nice custom look to it.


Terry
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I know now why men light fires.

Robert Leckie


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#3988633 - 04/12/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: Steelhead]
Savage_99 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 14305
And it locks the firing pin as well!

When I unload a chamber that has a live round in it I prefer a M70 type safety. To each his own.

True my double barrel shotguns, 99's nor the falling block rifles have it. I just like the M70 design and the Kimber has the smoothest version.

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Help me build a full custom (wood and blue) rifle
Savage_99 Offlin

Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 14197
Keep a lookout for one already finished and for sale.

I have never been disappointed with how they turned out! The delivery is also much better.

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#3988647 - 04/12/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: Savage_99]
TC1 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 6690
Savage99, it's all about how the safety is timed. If the safety on your Mauser isn't as smooth it has more to do with the installation than the safety itself. I've felt "notchy" feeling safeties on M70's, Kimber's, M98's and Ruger MKII's (with aftermarket trigger's.) I've also experienced the same models with safeties that where very smooth. It's about the install, not the rifle brand.

Terry
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I know now why men light fires.

Robert Leckie


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#3988693 - 04/12/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: TC1]
Savage_99 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 14305
There are a lot of old M70's here along with Dakotas on mausers along with Kimbers. Perhaps its Winchester and the smiths?

However none work as easy, quiet or smooth as the Kimbers.

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Help me build a full custom (wood and blue) rifle
Savage_99 Offlin

Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 14197
Keep a lookout for one already finished and for sale.

I have never been disappointed with how they turned out! The delivery is also much better.

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#3988807 - 04/12/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: Savage_99]
TC1 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 6690
That's because none are timed as well as the particular Kimber you own. All could/can be just as smooth.

These M70 style safeties have a small cam on the inside. This cam engages the cocking piece and has to move it back ever so slightly to hold it off the sear. The angle at which the cam on the safety meets the cocking piece are cut by the installer, This cut also determines how far the cocking piece is pushed off the sear. These all determine how smooth the safety is, going from fire to safe. Also, there is a pin that slides out of the inside of the safety shroud that locks the bolt when the safety is all the way back. If the channel in the bolt body isn't cut right, this can cause problems too and will affect the smoothness of the finished product.

If you took every safety you owned off the rifle they will all feel the same when you operate them. When installed they all feel different. It's because the different feel comes from the contact with other parts and how they mesh together. Installation is a MAJOR factor in the finished product.



Terry
_________________________
I know now why men light fires.

Robert Leckie


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#3988941 - 04/12/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: TC1]
Savage_99 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 14305
Installation could be a major factor of course however dozens of pre 64 post war M70s all operate somewhat stiff and this includes many others that I have operated.

Also all of the aftermarket ones on mausers are not that easy.

A factor may be that the Kimbers parts and spring are not as heavy? The Kimbers operate much easier.

How can it be that all of these pre 64 M70's are somewhat stiff and rough and the Kimbers are smooth? Installation?, Workmanship? I don't think so but then I never installed one.

In any case I still prefer the M70 design.
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Help me build a full custom (wood and blue) rifle
Savage_99 Offlin

Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 14197
Keep a lookout for one already finished and for sale.

I have never been disappointed with how they turned out! The delivery is also much better.

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#3988980 - 04/12/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: TC1]
Savage_99 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 14305
I looked over the Kimbers here and the 8400 has a larger safety than the 84M. In fact its size and operation are closer to a M70 than the 84M.

Its the 84M's safety on its much smaller action thats so easy to use. Also the top corner of its safety has its edge rounded so it does not dig into my thumb like the M70 and Dakotas.

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Help me build a full custom (wood and blue) rifle
Savage_99 Offlin

Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 14197
Keep a lookout for one already finished and for sale.

I have never been disappointed with how they turned out! The delivery is also much better.

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#3989183 - 04/12/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: Savage_99]
TC1 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 6690
Originally Posted By: Savage_99
Installation could be a major factor of course however dozens of pre 64 post war M70s all operate somewhat stiff and this includes many others that I have operated.

Also all of the aftermarket ones on mausers are not that easy.

A factor may be that the Kimbers parts and spring are not as heavy? The Kimbers operate much easier.

How can it be that all of these pre 64 M70's are somewhat stiff and rough and the Kimbers are smooth? Installation?, Workmanship? I don't think so but then I never installed one.

In any case I still prefer the M70 design.


No, it's because they aren't timed properly. The M70's can be made every bit as smooth as your Kimber. Same with the mausers. Not all Kimbers are smooth. It's not the shape it's the fit.

Terry
_________________________
I know now why men light fires.

Robert Leckie


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#3989878 - 04/12/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: TC1]
VernAK Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 06/27/01
Posts: 2970
Loc: Delta Junction, Alaska
Rip,

Some place around here, I have a new Ed LaPour 3 postion safety for a CZ 550.....If interested, I'll look for it and make you a good deal.....

Vern

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#3990000 - 04/12/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: VernAK]
SuperCub Online   content
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5613
Loc: NB / Canada
I'm looking for one for an FN (JC Higgins) if anyone has one on hand.


.
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#3990365 - 04/13/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: TC1]
Savage_99 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 14305
Do you have a Kimber 84M? Do you have a M70?
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Help me build a full custom (wood and blue) rifle
Savage_99 Offlin

Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 14197
Keep a lookout for one already finished and for sale.

I have never been disappointed with how they turned out! The delivery is also much better.

Top
#3990382 - 04/13/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: Savage_99]
TC1 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 6690
Originally Posted By: Savage_99
Do you have a Kimber 84M? Do you have a M70?


Yes, I have owned both. I still own a M70 but not a Kimber at this time.

Why?

Terry
_________________________
I know now why men light fires.

Robert Leckie


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#3990391 - 04/13/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: TC1]
Steelhead Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 81694
Loc: Between Glib and Flippant
Ask Don if he has an IQ past 73, that will get him wondering.
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#3990465 - 04/13/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: Steelhead]
mtnman1 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/09/03
Posts: 5734
His age and IQ go up at the same rate... Another 20 years and he'll break 100.
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#3990548 - 04/13/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: mtnman1]
butchlambert1 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 6159
Loc: Poetry, Texas
There are a lot of keyboard experts here. Listen to what Terry says, he does have the experience.
Butch

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#3991110 - 04/13/10 Re: Three position safety on a Mauser? [Re: butchlambert1]
atkinsonhunting Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 03/04/01
Posts: 6954
Loc: Filer, Idaho, USA
Costs will run you about $50 to $75 for installation...You can buy them from Brownells..They run $109 wholesale last I checked..

Add to TCIs post that when the u notch is cut in the cocking piece, many smiths do not reharden the notch, and they have cut through the case hardening..heat in cherry red and quinch it then polish it..that will add greatly to the smoothness of the 3 pos. safety. You can get a pretty nice feeling safety by simply following the directions and cutting the angles correctly.


Edited by atkinson (04/13/10)
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