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I own and shoot Browning and Winchester ORIGINAL 71's (not that there are any other kinds). Any differences in weight are probably within the noise of manufacture (+- a few ounces). The few Browning '86s I've handled remind me of the 71's and I know I've shot original Winchester '86's (pre- light weights) that weigh more. I will say I've never disassembled either, so I can't comment on differences, if any, in their lock work.

As for shooting, you would be hard pressed to find a more accurate lever gun than the Browning 71 reproduction. 4" groups at 200 yards can be had with open sights (and that's as good as I can see).

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Interesting.

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I would go with the 1886. I like Marlin rifles, but not as much as the 1886 action. Comparing an original Model 71 to a Marlin is a big difference is receiver size and slick action movement. But, I am biased to the 1886, only have one Marlin lever action anymore.

Really interesting post on the Miroku manufacture compared to the US. There was similar observation made of Browning A-5 shotguns, made in Belgium compared to Miroku. The categories were cult following Belgium made looked and felt better but the Miroku made functioned better due to tighter tolerances and better manufacturing.

Both shoot well in my experience.


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1886 win. hands down..It is a better looking rifle, better made, has better resale value. Every 86 I have owned was super accurate, and not so the Marlins, some were and some were not.

Of note and as much as I have always liked the Win. Mod 71, I have only seen a few that shot worth a flip and have not figured out why an 86 is so accurate and a 71 isn't unless its the .348 Cartridge itself...I have owned a bunch of both over the years..My first 86 was still in the wooden box of celsor and was a gift to me from Bowie Cline the manager of Union stock yards in El paso. they had several in case Pancho Villa raided them..I sold that gun some years later for $150 and cut a fat hog on that deal..That was a bunch of money back then..wish I'd kept it....:)

Last edited by atkinson; 04/12/10.
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Atkinson,
A lot of folks see the 71 as the 86 with a new number, but that's not the case at all. The 71 is actually most similar to the 92, in that cartridge over all length is absolutely critical to smoothe functioning. The 86 uses a hook to feed from the magazine, but the 71 dispensed with this feature.
The 348 is what I would call a true field accurate cartridge. It is not a bench rest number. No one designed the 348 to make nice little holes in paper to be folded up and carried around in the wallet. In my experience, once one learns the proper hold for their levergun, they are deadly with it at whatever range they have practiced for, and the 348 was no different.
Field accurate means you hit what you aim at in the field. Folks used to high powered scopes bolt actions and ear splitting reports don't believe me when I say this, but no matter, it is true as the sun shines.
I do agree with you that the real 86, in fine condition, not refinished after being beat up, is a most excellent rifle, but these are getting harder and harder to find at anything approaching affordable prices.
Well, the real Winchester is gone and buried, and by the looks of it, the real Marlin is soon to follow. I think anyone who is willing to shoulder the quintessential levergun is now part of a piece of fading history.
Get a Marlin, a Win, or a Miroku while you can, you won't regret it.

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Originally Posted by jim62


You might consider sending that Browning of yours to Buffalo Bill Firearms Museum in Cody. Any lever gun that inaccurate should be documented and have it's own wing due to it's rarity..


You sure your name isn't dick? For crying out loud who pissed in your post toasties. get a life man!


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I bought a new Marlin Guide Gun and it felt it was a fine rifle. After about 2 years and much shooting, I traded it in on a Winchester 1886 EL. I've never regretted that decision. Is still have the 1886.


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Originally Posted by elkhunter76
Originally Posted by jim62


You might consider sending that Browning of yours to Buffalo Bill Firearms Museum in Cody. Any lever gun that inaccurate should be documented and have it's own wing due to it's rarity..


You sure your name isn't dick? For crying out loud who pissed in your post toasties. get a life man!


Well,

Based on your post above- I could say the same to you.

Thanks SO MUCH for your constructive addition to this thread. wink

Last edited by jim62; 05/12/10.

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Ouch that hurt and was intelligent..... not. You really don't know anything about anyone here. Yet you profess to walk on water about your knowledge on this subject. Instead of really reading the post and trying actually comprehend , you jump to conlcusions and began tossing insults. I wouldn't say you have made any contributions to this thread. Just spewed a lot of vitriolic bullschitt.

I would venture to say, as I know who sharpsguy is and even not knowing you at all, that he has a bit more experience in shooting the 45/70 and such.

BTW I have both an 1895 and an 1886. For general hunting I'll take the 1895 everytime.


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Originally Posted by elkhunter76
Ouch that hurt and was intelligent..... not. You really don't know anything about anyone here. Yet you profess to walk on water about your knowledge on this subject. Instead of really reading the post and trying actually comprehend , you jump to conlcusions and began tossing insults. I wouldn't say you have made any contributions to this thread. Just spewed a lot of vitriolic bullschitt.

I would venture to say, as I know who sharpsguy is and even not knowing you at all, that he has a bit more experience in shooting the 45/70 and such.

BTW I have both an 1895 and an 1886. For general hunting I'll take the 1895 everytime.


Well said elkhunter. A guy expresses his opinion and then some a-hole comes along and tells him his opinion is wrong! The guy needs to lighten up.



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[quote=elkhunter76]Ouch that hurt and was intelligent..... not. You really don't know anything about anyone here. Yet you profess to walk on water about your knowledge on this subject. Instead of really reading the post and trying actually comprehend , you jump to conlcusions and began tossing insults. I wouldn't say you have made any contributions to this thread. Just spewed a lot of vitriolic bullschitt.

I would venture to say, as I know who sharpsguy is and even not knowing you at all, that he has a bit more experience in shooting the 45/70 and such.

BTW I have both an 1895 and an 1886. For general hunting I'll take the 1895 everytime. [/quote}

E,

At first, I was puzzled why anyone would dredge up a 6 week old post here.

Especially given the lack of response to it on this thread since then.

Now, I seen your agenda.

You like the 45-70 Marlins -good for you. They are a good gun and I have no problem with them. The several I have owned and shot have been good guns.

I ALSO have expereince with a half dozen Browning 86 levers over the last 23 years. In that time ,I have never seen or heard of an inaccurate one -rifle or carbine. Which I why I made the statement I did.

As far as "Vitriole" goes--

Based on your recent "contribution" on this thread- your hypocracy on that matter is astounding.. wink














Last edited by jim62; 05/13/10.

To all gunmaker critics-
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt
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Quite frankly I didn't even look at the date. I just happened to read the thread and responded to what I read. I have no agenda other than responding to your posts. BTW the word is hypocrisy...you might look up the definition before you try to use it in a sentence.

Also never said I didn't like the 1886, just said I like my Marlin better for the hunting I do. Get over yourself. But you won't because you are the type that will continue to post to justify yourself and point. Adios!

And I see you are!


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Liar24's brother perhaps?


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Originally Posted by RS308MX
Liar24's brother perhaps?


No, not hardly.

But based on your posts here you seem to be his identical twin.

GFY. wink

Last edited by jim62; 05/13/10.

To all gunmaker critics-
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt
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FWIW, I sold the 45-70 Browning 1886 SRC today. A buddy of mine wanted it, and asked what I would take for it. I told him 600 bucks out the door, and that it wouldn't shoot a cast bullet. He said that he would give it a try with some jacketed bullets, and if it wouldn't shoot for him, he would send it on down the line. At least at that price, he won't get hurt.

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Sharpsguy,

If he cannot get it to shoot, tell him to contact me.

I will give him that price and $100 to boot.

Last edited by jim62; 05/13/10.

To all gunmaker critics-
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt
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jim62--Will do. He may get it to shoot. The thing is, I don't shoot jacketed bullets, and it wouldn't touch any of the four different cast bullets I ran through it. I'll let you know how it works out.

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Shallow smokeless rifleing can be touch and go with cast.

Right now I am running 420g Lyman FP bullets cast 20-1 tin lead with a compressed charge of 70g Swiss 3f in my 1886 Browning 26" rifle.

With the factory buckhorns that load will do 1.5" for three straight shots at 100 yards, which is about as good as I can see coarse open sights these days..


To all gunmaker critics-
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Actually, one of my go to loads in my 45-70 Marlin Cowboy is that same 420 grain Lyman FP 457193 over 70 grains of Goex 3f Express. It shoots really well in the Marlin as well as my Sharps and Remington rollers, but this 1886 wouldn't touch it. It was the first or second load I tried in the '86, as I keep a hundred or so loaded up.

That is an effective load, accurate and more than powerful enough for elk, yet the recoil level is low. I think it is really a good load for these light lever guns.

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I've owned both and while the nostalgia and romance of the Winchester name puts the 86 and 71 above the Marlin the most accurate and easy to shoot lever action I've ever owned was a Marlin 95 GS which would keep 5 inside 2" at 200 yards. Yet the hardest kicker was the 71 I owned for about 5 years. The Ruger #1 in 45/70 with 50,000 PSI loads, it destroyed two scopes btw, was no where near as bad as that 71 was with factory ST loads.

For those of you who love your 86/71 thats great and I'm happy for you but as for me just hand over my beloved little Marlin.


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