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What about the 220 Howell? It`s basically a 22-06 that is designed to toss heavy high BC bullets at modest pressure & velocity.


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I would just drop down to 22x47 lapua or even a 22-250 or a 220 swift. There is only so much you can do with the 90s despite the superior BC. Damn things blow up at extreme velocities, even in 5 groove barrels. I have been playing with the 22x47 for a couple years now, great round for me because I have so much 6.5x47 brass that has already been necked to 6mm laying around. I cannot get the 90 bergers to hold together with a 7.5 twist much past 3200. I cannot get them to stabilize in an 8 twist even running them 3350. There is just not much room for improvement of the standards when it comes to long range 22s. The bullets not the cases are the limiting factors. BTW I have never blown up a 80 SMK....yet, so as an aside maybe there are some other things to try.

Last edited by EddyBo; 04/23/10.
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I don't own a .22-06 nor do I care to, but for grins I ran the numbers through QuickLoad. It suggests that with modern powders, the cartridge is no longer "overbore;" powders such as Retumbo should give about 3300 fps at the higher pressures when using 90 gn bullets. Dropping the pressure into the 50's to try to improve barrel life will cost you only 150 fps. Either way, the muzzle blast ought to be impressive.

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You make a good point.

Overbore has become a term which gets tossed around but has very little to do with reality these days with our modern powder formulas.
It's a term out of history.

In that same vein so is the concept of a barrel burner. Modern, cooler burning powders with new additives and coatings means that throats erode much less rapidly than before.


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No cartridge I own operates over 40,000 psi, so barrel burning is not something I'm familiar with. However, I'll note the capacity of the case compared to the bore cross section is similar to that of the .50 BMG. Is the .50 a notorious barrel burner (I don't own one)?

I recall Mule Deer suggesting one time that shoulder angle has an effect on throat erosion, so in picking a particular variant of the .22-06, one might want to consider that.

I'll further note this comment from Ken Howell, posted in these forums about 9 years ago:

Quote
No one has shot-out a .220 Howell barrel yet, but the significantly lower peak pressures guarantee a significantly longer barrel life.


His .220 is pretty much a .22-06, and you can read what he has to say about the "significantly lower peak pressures" in these posts of his on another forum many years ago.

Last edited by 2525; 04/23/10. Reason: quote & link
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Originally Posted by nsaqam


Overbore has become a term which gets tossed around but has very little to do with reality these days with our modern powder formulas.
It's a term out of history.

In that same vein so is the concept of a barrel burner. Modern, cooler burning powders with new additives and coatings means that throats erode much less rapidly than before.


WOW !!!!!!!! you live in an internet dream world based in fantasy not reality laugh
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Originally Posted by 2525
a .22-06 with modern powders, the cartridge is no longer "overbore;"


One of the most rediculous post's ever but a good laugh laugh laugh
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Yea rockchuck, You're the recognized expert in fantasy world life. crazy
If you think modern powders haven't had any effect on barrel life you're nuts.


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The definition for "overbore" I go by is not uncommon. A cartridge is overbore if you can't find a powder which fills the space below the bullet while giving safe pressures.

In the .22-06 Easling, the ratio of net case capacity to bore area is 5.8 inches. In the .50 BMG it's 5.4 inches. If that version of the .22-06 is overbore, then so is the BMG, yet they've been safely loading the latter for nearly a century. (For a plain .22-06, I'd estimate 6.2".)

Despite the larger relative case size, because the bullet SD used in the .22-06 is much lower, it should be necessary to use a slightly faster powder than the BMG. The powders available to hand loaders today runs through those suitable for heavy bullets in the BMG.

That's why I think the term "overbore" no longer applies. I'm curious why you think it does apply.

Last edited by 2525; 04/24/10. Reason: numbers off
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I agree that the evil connotations of overbore have been mitigated to a degree with modern powders. That's not to say that I don't think a .22-06 isn't kind of a wacky idea. I would like to hear how it works though! smile


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Its the whackiness that adds to the cool factor in my opinion.

The 224 Cheetah seems like a more logical cartridge for this particular project, since the OP said the donor was a 7x57 in its first life.

There was a great article on the two 22x57 wildcats out there in a recent issue of Precision Shooting. It grabbed my interest, though I'm not into cartridges that use so much powder compared to bore diameter (notice I didn't say "overbore"!).

Again, any of these carry a high "cool factor" in my book and for someone who is really into tinkering with wildcats it'd be awesome.

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IIRC the .22x57, called the 5.6x57RWS, is a factory cartridge in Europe.

I agree EFW, very high cool factor.


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Yep, the 5.6x57 RWS was introduced in 1964 by RWS specifically for hunting Roe buck and Chamois.


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Well, I'm convinced and will put my 1x9 twist, Douglass-barreled 22-06 out in the garden this year, once the tomato vines have progressed to the point of needing additional support. Doubt the woodchucks will miss it, come summer.

Reckon I can always find something else to do with the freed-up H4831SC powder and 65gr bullets? ;O)


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No dubePA, 4831 can't possibly work. You see, the cartridge is overbore. confused

Funny thing, though, both the Powley Computer and QuickLoad predict 4831 is about the right speed for a .22-06 firing a 65 grain bullet. wink

Hmmmmm...

By the way, which version of the .22-06 do you have, and have you ever measured the water capacity of the empty case? Thanks.



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Straight-up 25-06 case necked for a .224 bullet. I didn't measure the case capacity, but it's partial to 55grs of H4831SC behind a 60gr or 65gr bullet.


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I never intended to build a high pressure gun, I just want to do a lot better with heavy .224 diameter bullets than the current offerings.

I believe 27XX FPS is the top end for a .223 Remington with 75 grain bullets. But in looking at the .228 Ackley, and the bigger Van Horn Express information I found, I should be able to gain almost 1000 fps over the .223 Remington.

Looking at my desire to fire the high BC 90 grain bullets, the 22-06 would thrill me if it sent 90 grain bullets down range with a muzzle velocity of 3400 fps. As long as it matched the velocity the 300's give to their high BC 200 grain bullets, it should equal them for long range, non-hunting uses, with less recoil.

Big cases allow lower pressures, as we see in the comparison of th 416 Rigby verses the 416 Remington. IF the right powder is available,and the performance goals are reasonable, there is no intrinsic reason a 22-06 has to be a high pressure barrel burner.

The 5.56X57 RWS must be loaded to very reasonable pressure levels because it has a significantly larger case than the 220 Swift, yet very little velocity gain. Like the project I want to do, its purpose was to launch heavier bullets. As we saw with the .244/6mm Remington, twist rates matter in cartridge design.

According to the part numbers my 7X57 and the 30-06 use the same follower in the M77, so the original cartridge isn't an issue in this project.

Thanks for the links to Mr. Howells info. He is always a great source of logical thinking on these subjects, though I was disappointed to not find the 22-06 in his book "Custom Cartridges". Hell if I couldn't have found another designer's work on this cartridge when writing that book, I would have made one up and put my own name on it.

All of you gave me ideas to follow up on in my reference books. Thanks for the good discussion.


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Originally Posted by siskiyous6


Tell me more about the theory behind not using 3 grove, because I saw others advocating it.



The theroy behind the 3groove is that it is supposed to give longer throat life in certain applications, for example using a 3groove 1-7" twist for a 223 Remington is a good idea and you would have no problem's.
But the bigger the case capacity (for bore size) and the faster the twist the worse of an idea the 3groove becomes, the lands are just too agressive for frangible bullets at higher velocities like in the 22-06 .this condition worsens at the first sign of fire cracking in the throat , so a bullet that might shoot awesome for the first 200 rounds suddenly start blowing up after they leave the muzzle.
I have built many large capacity 22 and 6mm fast twist for hi B.C.bullets for long range varmint hunting and have found from trial and error that 5 or 6Groove barrel's are superior in every way. a 3groove is awesome for a 1-10" twist 30-06 but is aweful for a 1-7" twist 22-06.
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Originally Posted by siskiyous6
I never intended to build a high pressure gun,

Big cases allow lower pressures, IF the right powder is available,and the performance goals are reasonable, there is no intrinsic reason a 22-06 has to be a high pressure barrel burner.



This is where your philosophy may be flawed....
You mentioned that you want this to be a long range rifle to shoot 75-90 grain high B.C. bullets. The #1 thing with this criteria is to find a load that is consistent from shot to shot and has low standard deviation, most of the time with a cartridge such as this it happens at a fairly high pressure level.
someone(s) got offended on one of my previous posts when I called the 22-06 OVERBORE. to give you a more accurate assessment think of it as diminishing returns. compare a 22-250 AI (largest powder capacity I will ever use again) to the 22-06. you use a considerable ammount more powder in the 22-06 for very little velocity gain and a substantial decrease in barrel life.
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Originally Posted by siskiyous6


The 5.56X57 RWS has a significantly larger case than the 220 Swift, yet very little velocity gain.

My point exactly !!!!!!!!
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