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Originally Posted by nsaqam


Overbore has become a term which gets tossed around but has very little to do with reality these days with our modern powder formulas.
It's a term out of history.

In that same vein so is the concept of a barrel burner. Modern, cooler burning powders with new additives and coatings means that throats erode much less rapidly than before.


You internet theorist nincompoop's really crack me up, in the new Hodgdon,IMR,Winchester basic reloading manual published JAN 2010 under powder descriptions "RETUMBO This magnum powder was designed expressly for the really large OVER-BORED cartridges".

Also one other misconception you have is that these new powders are of a slower burn rate not a cooler burn rate. you must think Retumbo shoot's popsicles out the muzzle laugh laugh
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Originally Posted by rockchuck828
Originally Posted by 2525
a .22-06 with modern powders, the cartridge is no longer "overbore;"


One of the most rediculous post's ever but a good laugh laugh laugh
RC

You might want to check out the previous post as well even if it makes you wince

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Yep, you're right rockchuck now go back to your crib and bottle you idiot. You might have your mommy change your diaper too because you stink.


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As an added bonus from this same manual printed JAN 2010
"IMR7828 The BIG magnum powder.This slow burner gives real magnum performance to the large OVER-BORED magnums"

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Originally Posted by nsaqam
Yep, you're right rockchuck now go back to your crib and bottle you idiot. You might have your mommy change your diaper too because you stink.


Not my fault you have rectal-cranial inversion.

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Not my fault you're inbred!


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Originally Posted by rockchuck828
"IMR7828 The BIG magnum powder. This slow burner gives real magnum performance to the large OVER-BORED magnums"


Which rather goes along with my point. If the new slower burning powder increases performance, then before that powder, the case was too large to be safely filled. What was then overbore, now is not. So there.

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I never thought "over bore" was an scientific/engineering term. grin


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We're working on it. wink

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Originally Posted by peepsight3006
Originally Posted by atkinson
Muledeer,
I talked to Ross not long ago and he was still there! I'll give him a call.

For long range shooting I would think the 22 caliber a bad choice, as it tends to drop off in velocity and it certainly is wind sensitive IMO...

Personally I would opt for a 30 caliber or at least a 6mm. but thats just an opine on my part.


Shore nuff. Ray, the folks that do the 22/XXX bit are muzzle velocity blind. They can tell you within a few fps what she does at the muzzle, but are immune to logic when it comes to downrange stuff, like retained velocity due the BC, which is at least partially dependent on SD. When you show them what happens to a 200 grain partition (BC of .56) compared to a 45 grain .22 at distances from 400 out, they almost always come up with the "yea, but" that goes with denial.

Yea, I know I'm preaching to the choir, but at least you will listen and nod, knowing that a 375 shoots just as flat as an '06.

Wayne


Or a 90 jlk in .224 with a BC of .560(adjusted to .540 by my shooting out to 1000).... just saying....


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by 2525
Originally Posted by rockchuck828
"IMR7828 The BIG magnum powder. This slow burner gives real magnum performance to the large OVER-BORED magnums"


Which rather goes along with my point. If the new slower burning powder increases performance, then before that powder, the case was too large to be safely filled. What was then overbore, now is not. So there.


Obviously you are wrong, but just as obvious you wont admit it. but at least you had the dignity to side step the truth instead of drop a deuce in your britches like nsaqam.
RC
one last pearl "H1000 This very slow burning Extreme Extruded powder is perfect for highly OVER-BORED magnums"

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Who started calling a bore too small for the cartridge capacity "overbore?"

"Overchambered" makes more sense. smile

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Originally Posted by rockchuck828
Obviously you are wrong, but just as obvious you wont admit it.


Okay, right vs. wrong is determined by advertising hype. You win.

In the end, it's as simple as which definition to "overbore" do you like. You prefer relative case capacity; I prefer suitable powder burning speed. As I mentioned in the previous posts, both definitions have merit. I'll certainly admit mine is more esoteric.

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http://www.swampworks.com/jlk/

Alas, the 65gr VLDs my 22-06 was fond of, were dropped by Knox some years before he sold the business.


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Jimmy made a 75 that one of my guns just LOVED... IIRC he didn't make that one much longer either....


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Siskiyou, I don't have dog in this fight, but still felt like throwing out a couple ideas.

If you're looking at a heavy, 28" barreled long range fun gun, on an '06 action, have you considered the .280AI? If you think the 90gr JLK's .580BC is sweet, take a look at the 162Amax @ .625, or the 168JLK @ .690! Yes, you'd have more recoil, but also more down range energy, barrel life, and wind fighting ability. A 6-06 or 6-06AI shooting 105Amax's (.500BC), or 105/115JLKs (.560+) wouldn't stink either, and would reduce recoil if that's a major factor for you. It's also rare enough that you'd have exclusive bragging rights for your neighborhood (assuming that's part of the .22-06's charm for you).

Your journey, and your money. I'm just throwin' out some ideas for ya. smile


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Quote
Jimmy made a 75 that one of my guns just LOVED... IIRC he didn't make that one much longer either....


If you check the link above, the new owners are making 75gr VLDs. Don't know if it's the same as the one you mentioned?

I emailed Knox some years ago (probably 2003?), because his site showed the 60 and 65gr versions as unavailable at the time. He responded that he doubted they'd ever be available again, because he was swamped with orders for the heavier .224 bullets, from shooters that used them for competition in fast twist ARs.


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Originally Posted by 2525
In the end, it's as simple as which definition to "overbore" do you like.


Here's another definition for overbore, presented by one of the members of this forum in an article written many years ago. He characterizes overbore in terms of thermal efficiency. If one assumes a certain peak pressure, barrel length, and bullet SD, the efficiency comes down to expansion ratio, which in turn comes down to the relative case capacity. He comes up with the same number as the fellow who uses relative case capacity to try to characterize a barrel burner.

Now we have three definitions: barrel burner, inefficient, and uselessly large. Take your pick.

A google search will find that this topic has been discussed before on these forums (of course). For what it's worth, Ken Howell's definition is there, and that's the one I've been using. For him, the definition is best used with respect to a specific powder.

Last edited by 2525; 04/30/10. Reason: previous forum thread
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Don't know about anyone else, but my "barrel burner" lore dates back to the early 60s, when many were still touting the 220 Swift as the worst example of that mystical phenomenon?

Last I looked, several manufacturers are still making them awful things.

The next related topic I recollect from those days, concerned Remington bringing out the 25-06 in a factory chambering. Same predictions: "That'll smoke more barrels than the Swift!"

I can also recall when several 1000BR shooters I knew here in PA, were arguing over whether or not the 7mmx300Wby. bench guns would ever pan out, since some were sure the barrels of the day would never "hold up" to that cartridge.


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dubePA, what sort of barrel life have you and other .22-06 shooters been getting?

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