Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers Cast Lead in the .450 Marlin?

Has anyone here ever used cast bullets in their .450 Marlin? With very similar case capacities and function, I don't see why reduced loads with cast bullets would be an issue but I have never seen it mentioned before.

What say you?

I don't have a .450, but with the Ballard rifling, I don't see why you couldn't or wouldn't. My 1895 Cowboy in 45-70 does great with the Lyman 457193 (405 gr RNFP).

The trick with cast bullets for the .450 Marlin is to match the compressive tensile strength of the alloy to the pressure. Lee's 2nd Edition Reloading Manual is the resource on this subject.

I took the Oregon Trail Bullet Company, True Shot, 430 Gr. Gas Check Lead .459" bullets, and loaded with between 43.5 Gr and 47.5 Gr. Accurate Arms #2495 Powder. Groups run under 2" at 100 yards for this relatively hard bullet alloy.

Testing the hardness showed a dimple of 0.050" Diameter using the Lee Tool. The Brinell Hardness # 20.9 converts to 29,755 PSI Compressive Tensile Strength, and a cartridge working pressure from the tables at 26,719 PSI. (30,000 vs. 27,000 PSI).

The lead bullets intended for the 45/70 don't work. These are usually pure lead, and work at low black powder pressures with the smaller bore and different twist than the .450 Marlin. Using harder 45/70 in .457-.458" diameter bullets for smokeless powder , I got 4" and larger groups at 50 yards with several attempts to use the soft lead alloy (with BHN 14.3 - 20,407 PSI Tensile / 18,370 PSI Working Pressure). These attempts were with Accurate Arms # 5744 between 27 and 30 grains.

Primers in all cases were Remington #9 1/2.

The data available involves a lot of interpolation. I used the Accurate Arms Manual for 45/70, 500 Grain Jacketed Bullet for the pressure estimate with the AA2495 powder. The book says that 46 Grains of gave 26,500 PSI, and I conceded the lighter and lead bullet to favor safer (read, lower) pressures.

I have noticed that the .450 Marlin brass is softer than .338 Rem, or high pressure (30:06, .270, .243 Win, etc). Mistakes, such as too much powder and very heavy and hard (480 Gr. DGS Bullets) will swell the extractor groove. None of the 430 Gr. loads showed such problem or excess pressure signs.

Again, check out Lee's book, and be careful.

Never saw a 45-70 bullet that was pure lead. Even the olden days the alloy usually ran 18:1. I use 20:1 alloy I use currently the Lyman 457643 and 31 gr AA5744. I size and lube the bullets to .457 diameter. I shoot a bit differently as I shoot 1 5 shot group, then I shoot 2 shots at a time.I have it now where at 100 yds, the shots cut each others holes. I get no leading. If you buy commercial, you might be .001 off in size. My barrel is .457 so I have a match. The 450 Marlin isn't any larger diameter. Get your barrel either air gauged or slug it and have bullets sized to diameter. I have never found any Lee cast bullet that worked in ANY of my three 45 caliber rifles. Not my 45-70,not my 45-90 and definitely not my 45-110. Not with either smokeless or blackpowder. YMMV. The Lyman 457643 and the 457193 have worked extremely well in the 45-70 and the 45-90. Get your bore size and work from there. AA5744,IMR3031,and Reloader 7 work pretty good for the 45 caliber cases.

I am obvously not the number cruncher you are and do not take issue with anything you have written with the exception of what is in bold in the quote above. I have shot the Lyman 457193 cast 40:1, 30:1 and from wheel weights through my Marlin 1895 CB pushed with either 65 gr Goex CTG BP or 54 gr IMR 4350. Bullets sized to .458" and lubed with the same lube for either the BP or smokeless load and a card wad under the bullet base. I also have shot BPCR informal competitions (i.e., not NRA sanctioned) using this bullet in my single shots and have never used "pure" lead for the bullets, nor do I have any personal knowledge of anyone who has or does. Pure lead for ML round balls, yes, but not in a cartridge gun. I suppose you could, but with the velocities you get from a cartridge gun, it probably wouldn't yield any increased benefit (just my opinion).

According to Marlin's website, the 450 Marlin and the 45-70 in the Marlin 1895 have the same twist and number of grooves in their barrels. Granted, the bore diameters and grove depths might vary from one to the other, but they can do that from one rifle to the other in the same caliber, too.

Absolutely, be careful in working up loads. Start at the low end of the suggested manual's load data. Half the fun of shooting is finding that one "sweet" load for your rifle, and that cannot be achieved without a bit of experimentation. But, again, safety is rule one.

Hey Otter, try the GOEX FFG Express!! That stuff kicks ass!!! Leaves a quite soft and moist foul and has a mucho better power level. chrono'd a 540 gr PP bullet out of my Sharps loaded w/106 gr of said powder and got a clean 1400 average out of a 10 shot string w/ a high-low of only 8 fps!!! Killed my moose like a safe fell on his head when I hunted with the load.

I have had excellent luck with the Ballisti-cast 1452 mixed with 50/50 ww/Pb. Don't remember the exact charge offhand as I am at work but it is a 2 inch load all day long at 100 yds. and does as much damage as everybody's .270 and 30/06's that I hunt with. It is around 1800 FPS. I have found non-GC bullets to lead pretty bad.

I shoot a hard cast 450 grain FN from the Bullet Barn in Canada. H322 will get up to 1700FPS and the load will penetrate through 20" knotty spruce like a drill bit.