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Originally Posted by prredog

I've never wanted to use any lube on my scale because of contamination to the powder, no matter how remote that may be, maybe I need to change my process there, the reason why I may think its not as accurate, 2 years ago I bought a chronograph, a .270 that was once a constant 7/8 inch grouper had gone to the crapper with a load that was always a constant performer. It was now shooting 1 3/8 inch groups. The new load just didn't feel right, like it was to weak. My new chronograph tells me I'm only getting 2920fps. which is off from the book 3000fps.+. I live with it because it still is a proven game killer. So fast forward to now, I'm working on a 7mm Rem. Mag. load and again, not getting close to manual performance. So, I'm questioning my scale as to its accuracy. Just trying to cover all the bases. Most of my reloading gear is 20+ years old. Just wondering if others update there equipment from time to time.


I just reread this post. Two different issues with two different rifles.

The .270 could have accuracy problems with the rifle itself. Bedding? Copper fouling? Loose mounts and on and on. If it were only the powder charge or the load then a little more load development would quicky find out if this were the problem. Are you using the exact same components in the new load or better yet the exact same loads that shot well?

The 7mm rem mag not reaching "manual performance" is not uncommon. Each rifle is different on what speeds are obtainable.

I think that trying to trace two different problems to one common cause is probably not the answer.


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I have an old lyman scale that I bought in 1985, it gives me the same weight at a new RCBS 505 I think, the step down one from the top. I weight all my charges.


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Originally Posted by prredog
I'm starting to wonder if a scale I started with back in the 80's, a RCBS 5-10 is measuring as accurately as it used to. I see you can buy a weight set that will tell you whether your scale is accurate or not but if its not, then you just spent $30 or more for the cost of that information. Do they wear out over time? I keep mine in a cabinet when not in use but it still accumulates dust that I brush off before using. I weigh every load so it has literally 1000's of loads to account for. Are these new digital scales worth the money or are the old beam scales still the way to go. Looking for knowledge, thanks. Mike
I personally believe a mechanical scale is more reliable than a digital, I have a Lyman DPS 1200 II and I check it with my Dad's old RCBS, they're both accurate but the digital is way more sensitive and prone to mistakes than the RCBS. Your problem sounds more like copper fouling to me, you should check out your barrel. What do you use for a bore cleaning solvent?

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"maybe lubed with graphite dust.'

Graphite is harmless to both the scale and powder. In fact, powder is mixed with a bit of graphite to help it flow better by the makers. The design of the pivots abd bearing don't require any lube, just keep them clean.

Digital scales crash. Beam scales will last forever if they are taken care of. Certainly they can be bent, broken, dirty/dusty, dinged, etc, and otherwise physically damaged but they don't "wear out" at all.

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Dropeed my first RCBS 5-0-5 on a concrete floor about 15 years ago. Kept using it but didn't trust it, so replaced it with another 5-0-5 which is still in use.

I did baby this new one a bit and boughtan RCBS dust cover. It stays under that cover when not in actual use. I don't know if dust can get under the pivot area or not but figure it doesn't hurt to keep it clean.


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Originally Posted by fish head
Originally Posted by prredog

I've never wanted to use any lube on my scale because of contamination to the powder, no matter how remote that may be, maybe I need to change my process there, the reason why I may think its not as accurate, 2 years ago I bought a chronograph, a .270 that was once a constant 7/8 inch grouper had gone to the crapper with a load that was always a constant performer. It was now shooting 1 3/8 inch groups. The new load just didn't feel right, like it was to weak. My new chronograph tells me I'm only getting 2920fps. which is off from the book 3000fps.+. I live with it because it still is a proven game killer. So fast forward to now, I'm working on a 7mm Rem. Mag. load and again, not getting close to manual performance. So, I'm questioning my scale as to its accuracy. Just trying to cover all the bases. Most of my reloading gear is 20+ years old. Just wondering if others update there equipment from time to time.


I just reread this post. Two different issues with two different rifles.

The .270 could have accuracy problems with the rifle itself. Bedding? Copper fouling? Loose mounts and on and on. If it were only the powder charge or the load then a little more load development would quicky find out if this were the problem. Are you using the exact same components in the new load or better yet the exact same loads that shot well?

The 7mm rem mag not reaching "manual performance" is not uncommon. Each rifle is different on what speeds are obtainable.

I think that trying to trace two different problems to one common cause is probably not the answer.


fish head

As regards to the .270, I'm 99% sure its the load, all components were the same except it was a new batch of powder, H4831. The scope, base and rings have all been replaced since I loaded that batch of 100 and accuracy is still not on par of what it use to be. Its now my daughters rifle, still a great rifle and I have confidence that my loading technique needs to get better for it vrs. throw 100 rounds together based on a previous load. Some tinkering maybe in order. The verdict is still out on the 7mag., I'm still in the process of working with it but it is turning out to be a good shooter so far, just not as fast as what maybe other rifles in its class are. Tonight I intend to clean my scale and weigh a few different bullets and see what the out come will be.

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Originally Posted by Jimmy_Joe
Originally Posted by prredog
I'm starting to wonder if a scale I started with back in the 80's, a RCBS 5-10 is measuring as accurately as it used to. I see you can buy a weight set that will tell you whether your scale is accurate or not but if its not, then you just spent $30 or more for the cost of that information. Do they wear out over time? I keep mine in a cabinet when not in use but it still accumulates dust that I brush off before using. I weigh every load so it has literally 1000's of loads to account for. Are these new digital scales worth the money or are the old beam scales still the way to go. Looking for knowledge, thanks. Mike
I personally believe a mechanical scale is more reliable than a digital, I have a Lyman DPS 1200 II and I check it with my Dad's old RCBS, they're both accurate but the digital is way more sensitive and prone to mistakes than the RCBS. Your problem sounds more like copper fouling to me, you should check out your barrel. What do you use for a bore cleaning solvent?

Wipe out bore cleaner and occasionally run some Barnes CR10 behind that just to make sure the bore is getting clean. As of yet, the wipe out seems to be doing a great job.

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I went ahead and took some denatured alcohol and a q tip, cleaned up the pivot points on the scale. The q tip showed no residue build up at all. I looked the scale over closely for wear and saw none. Next check was to weigh some different bullets. Sierra .277 150gr. weighed exactly that, Sierra .284 160gr. weighed 160.1, Hornady 50gr. .223 VMax weighed 49.9, and a Nosler Ballistic tip 50gr. .223 weighed exact. My conclusion here is that my scale still has plenty of life left in it and that I need to be more thorough in my reloading techniques. Thanks for the input!

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"As regards to the .270, I'm 99% sure its the load, all components were the same except it was a new batch of powder, H4831. The scope, base and rings have all been replaced since I loaded that batch of 100 and accuracy is still not on par of what it use to be."

That statement shows that you now have two new varibles in the .270 to contend with. A different lot of powder and a new scope, base and rings. However, going from a 7/8" group to a 1 3/8" group sounds like an issue related to the change in powder lots.

I think you're right on track with thinking it's the load.


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May not make any difference but it makes me feel better to take the balance beam off the pivots when the scale is not in use. I think it is the bumps askance that dull the knives and when the balance is not in use, that is when it gets bumped.

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I have loaded a lot and not sure I have ever worn a scale out. I personally do think the Redding scale is more accurate than the RCBS/Ohaus and definitely more accurate than the digital I had.

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I used the same Lyman/Ohaus D5 for 43 years, and then one day I couldn't get the beam to center. Maybe it was a fluctuation in the earth's magnetic field, maybe something else, I don't know. I set it on a shelf and started using a PACT electronic scale that I bought a few years ago but had never used.

Then one day I happened to glance at my old scale and the beam was on-center, dead nuts. I have no idea why. But, I'm still using the new electronic scale because the digital readout is easier for the old eyeballs to read.


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Quicker too.


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That's a really interesting question. I thought I was the only "lucky" person.

I have an RCBS 5-0-5 I bought back in the 1980s which has developed some consistency issues. I can zero the scale, then tap the pan to start it swinging and it'll come back to .2 to .3 grains (guestimate) off zero. It didn't used to do that, it used to be absolutely reliable and predictable. For a long time, if it'd start acting "wonky" I would clean the blade and notch which totally fixed the problem. Now that isn't enough. I'm thinking about replacing it.

Tom


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A old time trick whilst using a balance beam scale is to tap the work bench a couple of times to "settle" the scale after the poise has come to rest. It's one of those little things that becomes automatic after a while.


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I've ran into a couple of minor issues with my 5-0-5. One is moving the pivot point to where the edges contact the scale. It very slightly interferes with readings to about + or - a tenth of a grain. It's still more than enough accurate for weighing charges though. The other issue is where I now load I set my scale on a very out of level window sill. Just bumping the scale slightly would be enough to throw it out off zero. I zero it out and tape the scale down to eliminate this problem.


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My RCBS scale also started to act "strange".........whatever that means. No matter, it wasn't working like it had for many years. I called RCBS and they told me that the plastic notch inserts were wearing out and that they would send me new ones to replace the old....which they did.

End result..........GTG just like the day I bought it.

So yes, parts can wear out. Keep in mind however, that I've loaded about as many rounds as gallons that have spewed from the BP leak.......+/-.

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In my 40 years of loading I have had one Ohaus 10-10 need service. I sent it back and it was replaced with a new one. I know it was new as it was a different shade of light brown and the plastic cover had no scratches at all. Mine had been packed up so many times and taken to the range it was mostly scratches. I also have a Redding scale that is mirror image of the old Ohaus 505 I bought while the 10-10 was off at the factory in 1982. I had the good fortune about 1985 to go to a gunshop clearance and got an Ohaus (RCBS 304) for $40.00 in the box new. I keep all of them covered up all the time except when in use, to keep dust out of them. I have two sets of check weights, one very old set that has very small weights that go down to .1 of a grain for a total of 50 grains and a Lyman weight set that is a few years old. I always check my scales before I start loading, that is just the way I was taught in 1968 by one of my Dad's friends that use to take me hunting when Dad was away working. Four or five years ago I bought an electronic powder dispenser/scale and I always check it with a balance beam scale, just as I have always checked my Redding micrometer powder measure. Even without electric power I can turn out perfect loads.
Good shooting,
Marcus.

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