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Dan C Johnson,
Idaho Shooter hit the nail on the head so to speak with how I was going to reply to your comments. I reread the article twice this weekend, and clearly Mr. Hoots was deriding his companion for his ammunition choice. Using this example to show how the "masses" are now going to be saved by Federal and their fusion bullet. I am not going to bad mouth the fusion bullet, I have not tried it. I just think the editor used bad judgement in his article. This is just one of the many articles I have read over the last few years that have turned me off of gun magazines. There are many times when the author of an article suggests or hints, either out right or "between the lines" that if we are not using what they think is best, then what an uneducated idiot we must be. It's too bad. If only the info could be presented in an unbiased way. Sadly I think most gun writers and editors are now tainted with the same attitude that has corrupted the national media.
Sorry to be so bleak, its just my take on this.
Rob

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Oldremington,
I have never used anything else for shooting a deer.Deer are the only big game I've shot but there have been engough of 'em in the back of my truck to know for certin they work. I have used .270-130's, .308-150's,165's, 180's round and spire point, and not one deer didn't dide within 100yds of being hit. Of the ones that did not drop where the stood, there was enough blood to find them with in a reasonable time. I don't use others because these shoot best in all the guns Ive used. Core loc ultra are not accurate in my '06, and Nosler Partitions are not accurate in anything I have. Others were tried, Core Locs are the best.

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OldRemmington;
I guess everything is open to interpretation and I'll admit to some bias since I'm a Field Editor for G&A. But I still feel the Editor was only commenting because the hunter said he chose the "cheapest thing in the store" not because he was shooting Core Lokts. I'll also note, it was not an article. It was the Editor's monthly Editorial where he discusses what is in this months issue. The story of the price conscious hunter was a natural lead in to the article on Federals new bullets because they, reportedly, deliver bonded bullet performance at prices comparable to standard bullets.

Is it possible, you being a staunch Remington fan, you read more into the comments than was intended?

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I will admit to being a Remington fan, although I tend to like the vintage Remington rifles more than the new (the new CDL possibly being an exception). And I do have other brands of firearms. The point I am getting at though is more the attitude (as I perceive it) of the editor towards the fellow hunter in what seems to be an expression of disbelief in his selecting the cheapest ammo, be it Remington Core-lokts, Winchester Power Points, or what have you. There seems to be an underlying current in many (not all) articles today that points toward "this new __________ firearm or component" is the cats meow and how could anyone possibly use anything different? Not everyone feels this way. And I think it is poor judgement on the part of the editor to have used this example as a lead in to introducing another new bullet. I will eventually try out Federals Fusion bullet, I enjoy just tinkering around at the reloading bench and trying out new stuff. But for the most part Remington's Core-Lokt, or Winchesters Power Points, etc. have been tried and true performers for a long time. And just because that is the sole bullet of choice for some people does not make them stupid or "less informed" or "out of the loop." I think it was bad form on the part of the editor on how he presented his story. If the gentleman mentioned were to read this, how do you think he would feel?
Thank you for responding, Rob

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OldRemmington,
I have forwarded my thoughts on this subject to Lee J. Hoots at http://www.gunsandammomag.com/staff/.
Perhaps if he recognizes that his readers prefer to see his thoughts written in a less uncomplimentory manner, he might change his style of expression.


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This past December, a friend of mine shot a whitetail doe in West Virginia with a 150-grain spitzer Core-Lokt from a .308. It hit the doe--which weighed about 105 on the hoof--in the ribs on the right side and ranged forward. We found fragments of the core and jacket under the skin of her neck on her left side. The slug was traveling at maybe 2700 fps, and went completely to pieces.

There are two ways you can look at this: It was perfect bullet performance, because it dropped her in her tracks. It was lously bullet performance, because a hunting bullet should not disintergrate, and what would have happened if the slug had been traveling at 3,000 fps, or if it had been fired at a big deer?

I sent ithe remiains of the bullet to Remington, with a note suggesting that whoever was responsible kill themselves. This was a month ago. So far, I haven't had an answer.

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WiseGeezer, your a trip! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Off subject sir, but what are your thoughts concerning
Remingtons coming out with the WSM's in their lineup for
'05? Are they throwing in the towell with their own SAUM's?

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My guess is that Remington will continue to load their SUMs for a couple more years as a face-saving device, but it seems as if that line is moribund. I don't know yet if they're going to chamber WSMs, but we'll find out in a week at the SHOT Show. In short, I don't know much, but I have opinions on nearly everything.

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there is nothing wrong with the old standard core lokt's, it maybe outdated and not the best bullet made, but it ain't all bad.

I haven't seen the new ultra's Core Lokt's in action

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Jeez, I'm kinda partial to that bullet. Don't care for Remington rifles though.


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LOL, it's only a bullet, don't take to seriuosly <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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I've recovered two 100gr. Core-Lokts out of my 243 Win. and they held together just fine. This was with handloads that were at or near max. and both deer were around 50 yards away or slightly less. One went 2/3 of the way through a deer from front to rear and the other was a quartering away shot on a larger deer and went through the off side shoulder stopping just underneath the hide. They mushroomed/expanded to the point of almost pancaking. All in all, I felt that they penetrated quite well for expanding so much and the core/jacket held together. In the three or four deer that I have shot with a 165gr. CL in 30-06(approx. 308 Win velocities) I haven't recovered a single one.


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Quote
My guess is that Remington will continue to load their SAUMs for a couple more years as a face-saving device, but it seems as if that line is moribund. I don't know yet if they're going to chamber WSMs, but we'll find out in a week at the SHOT Show. In short, I don't know much, but I have opinions on nearly everything.


You don't have to wait for the SHOT show. The 700 SPS is being chambered in .300 WSM. It's been on their website for weeks.

http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/700sps.htm

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The Core-Lokt Ultra is something else altogether. I've run penetration/expansion tests on them, and they duplicate the results you get from Nosler Partitions. I mean there is no difference. I'm puzzled by the .308 bullet in question. A couple of years ago, I shot a bull elk in the shoulder at 200 yards with a 250-grain Core-Lokt (not Ultra) from a .338 remington Ultra Mag, and it broke the shoulder, killed the elk on the spot, and held together just fine.

Bullets are the most important thing you take on a hunt. If your bullet doesn't perform right, everything else goes out the window, too.

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all the core-lokts i've ever hit a deer with did their job just fine. of course they were motivated by ordinary, non-death-ray cartridges such as the .308 win, .30-'06 and 6.5x55. same goes for plain ol' winchester power points flung by a .308 and .270, and plain ol' speer hot cores flung by the pedestrian 7.62x54r and .30-30, and plain ol' hornady spire points flung by .303 british and 6.5x55.


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Fish, along your line of thought, the corelock and Hornady Interlock are similar type bullets, and Weatherby loads them in their factory ammo as their lower cost offering. I suspect if I popped a dear with my 240 wby mag loaded with the 87 grain or 100 grain, blacktail, or muley, that deer is in trouble. Sure I now load the premiums, but there never has been anything wrong with the corelok, or interlok in my mind for deer sized game, for sure.

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Idaho Shooter,
I sent along my sentiments to Mr. Hoots also. I hope their is a change in his writing.
Thanks for the link,
Rob

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After reading all these comments, I read the editorial myself, twice, at the grocery store today. So I'll have to quote from memory. I've got to side with Dan C Johnson & Dave in WV- two other people who did read the article. Nowhere did I see where Lee Hoots condemned the Core-Lockt. I believe the point being made was that when he asked the other hunter what bullet he was using (after having payed good money to be on this hunt & apparently being a veteran of a few other hunts) the other hunter didn't have a clue what he was even using! His first answer was, "180 grains". Then when asked more specifically, he said "the cheapest one on the shelf". It appeared to me that Lee Hoots used this as an opportunity to make the point that there are regular bullets and then there are premium bullets (Guns & Ammo being geared to a little less experienced crowd than most here at 24 Hr Campfire). He didn't even say that premium bullets are necessary to kill a deer. Anyway, that's my two cents on how I took the editorial.

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Nothing is wrong with core-lokt's. Thats why I bought 500 175g .284 caliber C-L's last year for my 7X57. The price is right too.


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my boys are 5 for 5 with little 100 gr rem core-lokts from the little 250-3000. they seem to work fine! some people seem to forget its just a deer.

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