Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only What happened to the .416 Taylor?

So, what really happened to the .416 Taylor as a factory cartridge in the mid-late 70s? From all I have read there was great interest by all 3 of the major bolt rifle companies in the '73-'75 time frame......according to old articles they all chambered some custom rifles for the .416 Taylor. Why did it die as a factory round when there seemed to be pretty good interest for it? Was it the closing down of Kenya to hunting in the late 70s and later fear of all of Africa closing to hunting? So why did it never materialize? over 10 years later Remington came out with the .416 Rem mag and 30+ years after the initial hype the .416 Taylor was finally made SAAMI by A-Square (IIRC).

advntrjnky

How about, not enough case capacity..

The death of it's creator took away the man that pushed it hardest.

Either way ... its not dead ... there was talk that it was to be CIP approved by Norma and then chambered by CZ. The only fly in the ointment was that it appeared that they were going to approve more a 416/338 (liek ASquare) then a 416Taylor. The shorter 416/338 would work in all chambers cut to the various versions of the 416Taylor over the years so its an understandable move.
Cheers...
Con

Mine is doing just fine! The Talor still has a cult following. Kind of like the 257 Roberts of the big girls. When Taylor died, press kind of fell off. Then Remington brought out their 416 and Ruger brought out the rigby. Both pretty big deals in a niche market. Now the 416 Ruger appears. All good cartridges that do what the Taylor does, but you can soup the first two up if you need more power. The other problem was the lack of standardization in the Taylor. I've owned a couple and ammo from one won't always fit another. I even had one that neither ASquare nor Superior ammo would chamber in. Those kinds of problems cause a rifle manufacturer to hesitate before using that chambering. If you check, CZ still lists it, as does doublegun headquarters. On AccurateReloading.com a poster, who has worked with Norma, has posted that Norma is making ammo for it and shipping it to Africa and that we may see some in the states when they meet the demand there. It doesn't have the romance of rigby, or the power of big green behind it, or all the gee whiz if the new Ruger, but it just keeps pushing out that 400 grain bullet at 2350 fps in a light handy rifle. Are there bigger and betters, yep, but especially with newer powders and bullets, it's still a great one, and if it wasn't for the Taylor, the 416 caliber may have passed into oblivion.
Bfly

I just read a Wooters article about the .416 taylor from around 1975 and there was a lot of good info in it. Inspite of Taylor's death I find it odd that it took 13 years to get a .416 to market ('75- '88) when there was a genuine interest in the caliber....according to Wooters one of the majors had a .416 in development in 1975. it sounded like in the early days they tried to keep the Taylor's chamber specs in control to eliminate the problems you mentioned of varying specs now.

Ever since I heard about the .416 taylor in the early 90's i have wanted one.....however, since the introduction of the .416 ruger my interest in building a taylor has waned slightly.

advntrjnky

I beleive its was Winchester that was developing a Taylorlike .416, Ken Howell's book references this in the discussion of a developmental cartridge called the .408 Winchester that was dropped in that time frame. I think Dr. Howell even sights Wooters in that piece.

Wasn't Bowman messing around with a 411 at the same time and another guy that got his 411 patented at about the same time. I can't remember his name. I got a bunch of brass one time that had been sized to that latter one, all it took was a pass through the 416 die and they were ready. The shoulder never moved when I shot them.
One of the problems I recall was finding bullets. The Old Western bullets were about the only thing out there. I think they turned into the original Barnes bullets, which my rifle liked. Now there are a bunch. You can even find them at Bass Pro on the shelf. Back then the internet wasn't ( at least in my world) and all you could do was look through catalogs, send in an order and hope they were not back ordered, or out of stock.
I always thought Wooters article was the best, but there were two others of that era, one by Ken Waters and one by Norm Nelson?, maybe(someone correct me on that). I remember using them as my reloading manual.
I just loved the lion picture on Wooters article. He's one of the unsung heros of the gun magazines.
Bfly

I just got the book "Big Bore - Rifles and Cartridges" and am reading all of those old articles.....lots of good load info!

IIRC the .411 twin to the .416 taylor is the .411 KDF (not sure what KDF is short for).

advntrjnky

I think I recall KDF being a rifle builder for a while. I recall seeing ads in the early to mid 90's for KDF muzzle breaks. Still don't know what it stands for though. Never knew much about KDF, just recall the ads.

KDF - Kleinguenther Distinguished Firearms (I believe).

The other cartridge in this family that I've always been interested in is the 425 Express (.423). I doubt you could really tell any discernible difference between the 411 KDF, 416 Taylor, or 425 Express but then we'd have less to talk about.

The 416s resurgence and re-emergence on the market can be partly attributed to George Hoffman. He championed his 416Hoffman which became with alterations the 416Remington. If Robert Taylor lived longer he may have done the same because the fact it can fit in a standard length action is a plus. Bill Ruger also loved the 416s and attempted the 416Taylor before settling on the 416Rigby which he probably loved more. Les Bowman, Bob Hagel played with similar cartridges in 411 and 416.

The romance of the 416 is astounding (Robert Ruark effect?) given that the 404Jeffery did the bulk of the work in Africa by far. Taylor also spoke highly of the 416Rigby which also kept the romance alive. But it was the 404Jeffery doing the vast majority of work in the African bush in the hands of game departments until ammunition supply became an issue and the 458WinMag emerged.
Cheers...
Con

My .416 Taylor, built on a Nazi marked 98 action, is still one of the rifles that will ALWAYS deliver the goods. Nothing shot in the correct spot with the Speer 350 grain bullets at reasonable velocity is gpoing to take more than a VERY few steps. Great cartridge in a 7 1/2 pound rifle.

Terry

My .416 Taylor will exactly duplicate the original .416 Rigby velocities with less powder and recoil. It is a tack driver as well. Using 300gr Barnes x-bullets it shoots them 250fps faster than my .375 and shoots flatter.With 400gr encapsolated solids it out penetrates the .458 with 500gr fmjs,at least the ones I have tried. Components are availible and cheap compared to Rigby components. Granted I load my Rigby considerably hotter than the origianal ammo but it made its reputation with a 410gr at 2380fps. I know ofsome more being built and after gatlin saw how mine turned out I am sure he will recomend the chmbering to future customers. Just an all around great cartridge. reflex264

I OWN A 416 TAYLOR, BUT IMO THE 416 RUGER WILL REPLACE IT IN THE MARKET.

+1 but it will not replace my Taylor! Sweet rifle.

I expect to see quite a few Taylors converted to 416 Ruger, if the Ruger becomes more common.

How can any cartridge commericaly thrive without manufactures of the rifles or the ammo? Bad things happen to good cartridges...

It'll stay a custom barrel and handloader cartridge. The 416 Ruger won't displace it because it's users where too few to count in the marketplace. Life wasn't fair to the 416 Taylor.

Will a .416 Ruger clean-up .416 Taylor chamber?

Yes ... with ease.
Cheers...
Con

The 416 Taylor is an excellent cartridge like all .338 based rounds are, but the advent of the factory loaded and better balistics at about the same recoil level of the 416 Ruger should replace any interest in the Taylor, unless you just spent a bundle on the Taylor! then you must defend it with all your might!! at least Thats the way it usually works around here!

If I had a Taylor and I liked it then I wouldn't change a thing. If I was shopping I wouldn't even consider it, I'd go for a Ruger.

But all that said and done, I still prefer a .416 Rem. it's the same action length so noting is gained over it by either cartridge other than preference and thats a good reason for any choice of caliber.