Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa 375 Ruger or 9.3x64 Brenneke? Pros/cons

Here's my current big game rifle/cartridge line up:

Winchester Model 70s:

1. 270 Win
2. 300 Win Mag
3. 375 H&H (Safari Expess, weighs ~10+ pounds!)
4. 416 Rem Mag.

I'm looking to get a lightweight substitute for the 375 H&H Safari Express. As a result, I've been thinking of modifying one of my other Model 70s (a current 30-06) to preferrably a 375 Ruger or a 9.3x64 or maybe a 9.3x62 and keeping the weight to 8.5 pounds max. and use a 23" barrel. If I do a 9.3, I'd want it optimized for 286gr. bullets. If I do the 375 Ruger, I'd want to use the 300gr. bullets.

It would be used mainly in Africa in situations where I only bring one rifle or where I hunt DG with my 416 rem mag and need a back-up and lighter rifle for PG. In North America, I'd probably only use it for big bears or as a thick cover rifle.

The 9.3x64 Brenneke:

Pros: Std. length action, can be built lighter, hold 4 cartridges in the magazine, less recoil and same or greater penetration as the 375 H&H. It's also a classic and has greater case capacity than the 9.3x62, which helps with use of 286gr. bullets so it exceeds min. energy requirements by Zim. Ammo available in Europe, some parts of Africa

Cons: Lack of cases and ammo availability.

The 9.3x62:

Pros: Same as above, less recoil, greater ammo availability everywhere. Can hold up to 5 down.

Cons: Not the power level of either the 375 Ruger or the 9.3x64 Brenneke and only meets min. legal requirements in Zim for energy levels.

The 375 Ruger:

Pros: More power than the 375 H&H, exceeds and is legal DG in 99% of all African countries. Ammo available at same level as 9.3x62 in North America.

Cons: More recoil, only holds 3 cartridges in magazine, ammo NOT available in Africa (yet).


What would you build and why?

I do not want to just change the stock and make modifications to my current 375 H&H, I want a new semi-custom that weighs no more than 8.5 lbs and with a 23" barrel. My 30-06 is also in Stainless Steel, which I'd prefer to use for this new build.

Thanks!

Owning a 9,3x64 Brenneke, I opt for that one.

You pretty much have all the rationale posted above. Little it has to do with anything cartridge...

As for ammo - Cases are made by RWS and Brenneke. One time effort will import you enough to last a livetime. So-moot point.

My 9,3x64 throws a 286gr TSX at ~ 2450 fps (chronoed) from a 22" barrel.



Ed Stevenson examining the rifle of his (then) appreantise - said 9,3x64.

"I'm looking to get a lightweight substitute for the 375 H&H Safari Express."

9.3 X 62. There is a reason you see so many posts about, and that reason is that it is effective in excess of what paper ballistics will lead you to believe, and is a pleasure to shoot.

Pondoro Taylor summed it up in "African Rifles and Cartridges". Allow me to paraphrase:

"There's not much discussion about the 9.3 X 62, because there isn't anything to argue about. It works so efficiently that every accepts it's merits and happily go on to the next subject".

That's easy! No need to look further than the 9.3x62mm IMHO/IME

CL: Just a suggestion but that M70 06 action will convert nicely to a 375H&H,and a light 23" barrel goes with the 375H&H like peaches and cream.I have one on a pre 64 action that weighs 8 pounds on the nose, is very accurate and easy to shoot.

There is no law that says a 375H&H has to weigh 10 pounds...

So, there is no need to change cartridges if you can't find a good reason to do so, and it is also no trick to load the old Holland round to 2300 or so with a 270-300 gr bullet,in which case there is little to choose between it and a 9.3x62,and the extra reserve of power is there if you need it.

Plus you can still get factory ammo anywhere.

BTW Federal Premium with the 300 gr Nosler Partition that I have chronographed did about 2400.

Bob,

Is your .375 H&H 8 pounds "all-up"? To include the rings/mounts, scope, iron sights and ammo???

If so, please fill us in on the components you used to reach that weight (barrel make and contour, stock, iron sights, etc.).

Obliged!

I just BOUGHT the Ruger.

Easy choice.

For you, I would just rebarrel to 9.3x62.

BMT

Fosteology: It is 8 pounds with scope(4X Leupold), two piece mount, and no ammo. The action is a pre 64 M70 H&H;barrel is a Krieger 410 stainless that was turned to a light contour at 24".This is the second barrel;first was an Atkinson.

It has a Brown Precision stock and no iron sights.I have had it since the late 80's IIRC.I did not build it to come out so light,but it just turned out that way.

The Hawkeye African with factory 23" comes in at 7lbs-14 stripped after I glassed it. With a slimmer barrel on your M70 you should have enough room to meet your weight with glass and rings.

You covered the pro-con very well. While it's hard to predict the future, I'd wager the 375 Ruger will continue to grow in popularity in Africa, as more PHs are exposed to it.
It's been a run away hit in AK since its intro, with a total of 10,000 units sold in the first 12 months of production. That's a staggering number in a cartridge of that class.

Pete

I heard the first year sales number for .375 Ruger rifle at 8,000 units, which is not so different from your number.

I got an early Ruger .375 African Hawkeye, then sold my .376 Steyr and a pair of H&Hs. (The .376 Steyr is a 9.3X64 case shortened 4mm and opened up from .366" to .375".)

jim

What do you want to kill with your new rifle? Are you looking for a lighter carry rifle that could be used against larger animals in a pinch? I vote for the 9.3X62. For a lighter rifle, you are going to have to compromise on your power level. If you want to hunt DG with it you may want to reconsider. However, I have killed 2 buffalo with its ballistic twin, the 9.3X74R I see you already have some heavier calibers.

Here is a place to get a BIG rifle very lightweight. I just don't know how bad the recoil is.
http://www.newultralight.com/HTML/custom-rifles.html

Most likely it will be used as a bushveld PG rifle(Kudu, eland, zebra, occassional Sable or warthog etc.) while on a combo buffalo or leopard hunt that might also step in as a back-up or primary for DG too. It would be for either a one rifle or two rifle safari, where if hunting DG, I'd pair it with my 416 rem. mag. It might also be used for croc (neck/spine)or hippo (brain) shot if I need to take a water shot at 100 yards+. I'd also prefer to carry it as my primary rifle in more open areas unless hot on a trail for buffalo in thick brush where I would certainly be carrying my 416 rem. mag.

Hope that helps. It certainly forces me to think about it better too. Thank you.

9.3x64 because it is a little different.

I get 2550fps with my factory Brenneke ammo loaded with 293gr TUG bullets. The load shoots consistently at 1.25" or less.

I have played around with mine at the range a little bit, but have not settled on a load yet. I have 250gr TSX's and Accubonds, 286gr Hornady's and Nosler Partitions. Maybe this summer if I can make some time.

It doesn't help when the factory ammo shoots so well and at a nice velocity to boot.

The 375 Ruger is a very practical choice, and that was my second choice to the Brenneke.

The only way I would get a 9.3x62 would be to replace my 338-06's, which I will never get rid of.

So pick practical or panache. Go with your gut instinct and have fun.

I have shot and owned all three at one time or another..The 375 Ruger is the most practical without a doubt, the 9.3x64 is just a complicated .375 H&H or 375 Ruger for all practical purposes and brass can be a real problem from time to time..The 9.3x62 is always a favorite and seems to suit your needs more than the others as you already have a .375 H&H so the first two are repetition of the H&H...

I presently have both a 375 H&H and a 9.3x62, I really like both calibersa as would anyone that has used either on game.

The 9.3x62 has an advantage, for use of a better word, in that it has an 06 type case, it will come within 100 to 150 FPS of the 9l.3x64 and thats close enough, it will take more rounds in the magazine. I can get right at 2500 FPS in the long tube with a 320 gr. Woodleigh. My 375 will get 2550 to 2600 FPS with a 300 gr. Woodleigh, so thats a push in that the 9.3x62 shoots a 20 more grains of bullet but about 50 to 100 FPS slower. I also get 2553 FPS with a 286 gr. Nosler and 2700 plus with a 250 gr. monolithic, Barnes, GS Customs or the Swift bullet in that weight.

My Brno mod. 21 9.3x62 weighs 7.5 pounds naked and recoil is a tad less than all the other calibers you refer to. It has been a great gun to pack around in the Tanzanian heat its light handy and very capable Cape buffalo, Lion, Leopard, gun, and would suit me fine for elephant if I had to use it on one. I would be hard pressed to choose between it and a .375 however.

In as much as my African hunting has slowed down the last few years, I happen to have both my 375 H&H and the 9.3x62 for sale, when one sells then I will definately keep the other in case I have a change of heart and decide on one more venture to Africa, but that will give you an idea of how I feel about your choices.

The 9.3x64 is a fine enough rifle, but just too many problems for what you get, if you just want something different it might suit you fine but IMO its neither fish nor fowl..but again thats just my opine.

Compared to the 375 H&H and the 9.3x62, how would you view the 338 Win Mag? I believe the 300gr Woodleigh runs about 2500 fps, so that would seem to be in the same neighborhood. Would this be an acceptable Cape Buffalo caliber?

"Acceptable", probably not as the minimum allowed for DG is the .375H&H.

Zimbabwe (and perhaps others?) if I'm not mistaken will allow a 9.3x62mm for DG.

I've heard that about the 375 H&H, but I wasn't sure which countries follow that rule. Also that the 9.3 is sometimes allowed too. It just seems that with proper loads, the 338 WM is pretty close to these two.

I have a 338 winny but would not consider it as suitable since legal restrictions do not recognise it. I have shot some NA carnivors with it, but none of them showed hit shock although CNS hits put them down on the spot.

Randy

Apart from brass availability, the 9.3x64 Brenneke is hands-down better for North America and excellent for Africa too.

Tom Smith,
The 338 rates right up there with the rest of them..A 338 Win at 2500 FPS with a big dose of H1000 at and a 300 gr. bullet is sufficient to kill the worlds biggest animals with proper shot placement..I can say the same for a 600 N.E., it needs proper shot placement also!

John G,
How do you figure the 9.3x64 rates hands down "better" for NA? The facts are it isn't as good as a 375 Ruger or H&H according to paper balistics.

However, in the real world, the 338, 9.3x62, 9.3x64, 375 Ruger, 375 H&H are all the same with proper bullet placement and proper bullet construction wherein the all perform to near perfection or at least that has been my experience..