Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa 375 Ruger or 9.3x64 Brenneke? Pros/cons

Here's my current big game rifle/cartridge line up:

Winchester Model 70s:

1. 270 Win
2. 300 Win Mag
3. 375 H&H (Safari Expess, weighs ~10+ pounds!)
4. 416 Rem Mag.

I'm looking to get a lightweight substitute for the 375 H&H Safari Express. As a result, I've been thinking of modifying one of my other Model 70s (a current 30-06) to preferrably a 375 Ruger or a 9.3x64 or maybe a 9.3x62 and keeping the weight to 8.5 pounds max. and use a 23" barrel. If I do a 9.3, I'd want it optimized for 286gr. bullets. If I do the 375 Ruger, I'd want to use the 300gr. bullets.

It would be used mainly in Africa in situations where I only bring one rifle or where I hunt DG with my 416 rem mag and need a back-up and lighter rifle for PG. In North America, I'd probably only use it for big bears or as a thick cover rifle.

The 9.3x64 Brenneke:

Pros: Std. length action, can be built lighter, hold 4 cartridges in the magazine, less recoil and same or greater penetration as the 375 H&H. It's also a classic and has greater case capacity than the 9.3x62, which helps with use of 286gr. bullets so it exceeds min. energy requirements by Zim. Ammo available in Europe, some parts of Africa

Cons: Lack of cases and ammo availability.

The 9.3x62:

Pros: Same as above, less recoil, greater ammo availability everywhere. Can hold up to 5 down.

Cons: Not the power level of either the 375 Ruger or the 9.3x64 Brenneke and only meets min. legal requirements in Zim for energy levels.

The 375 Ruger:

Pros: More power than the 375 H&H, exceeds and is legal DG in 99% of all African countries. Ammo available at same level as 9.3x62 in North America.

Cons: More recoil, only holds 3 cartridges in magazine, ammo NOT available in Africa (yet).


What would you build and why?

I do not want to just change the stock and make modifications to my current 375 H&H, I want a new semi-custom that weighs no more than 8.5 lbs and with a 23" barrel. My 30-06 is also in Stainless Steel, which I'd prefer to use for this new build.

Thanks!

Owning a 9,3x64 Brenneke, I opt for that one.

You pretty much have all the rationale posted above. Little it has to do with anything cartridge...

As for ammo - Cases are made by RWS and Brenneke. One time effort will import you enough to last a livetime. So-moot point.

My 9,3x64 throws a 286gr TSX at ~ 2450 fps (chronoed) from a 22" barrel.



Ed Stevenson examining the rifle of his (then) appreantise - said 9,3x64.

"I'm looking to get a lightweight substitute for the 375 H&H Safari Express."

9.3 X 62. There is a reason you see so many posts about, and that reason is that it is effective in excess of what paper ballistics will lead you to believe, and is a pleasure to shoot.

Pondoro Taylor summed it up in "African Rifles and Cartridges". Allow me to paraphrase:

"There's not much discussion about the 9.3 X 62, because there isn't anything to argue about. It works so efficiently that every accepts it's merits and happily go on to the next subject".

That's easy! No need to look further than the 9.3x62mm IMHO/IME

CL: Just a suggestion but that M70 06 action will convert nicely to a 375H&H,and a light 23" barrel goes with the 375H&H like peaches and cream.I have one on a pre 64 action that weighs 8 pounds on the nose, is very accurate and easy to shoot.

There is no law that says a 375H&H has to weigh 10 pounds...

So, there is no need to change cartridges if you can't find a good reason to do so, and it is also no trick to load the old Holland round to 2300 or so with a 270-300 gr bullet,in which case there is little to choose between it and a 9.3x62,and the extra reserve of power is there if you need it.

Plus you can still get factory ammo anywhere.

BTW Federal Premium with the 300 gr Nosler Partition that I have chronographed did about 2400.

Bob,

Is your .375 H&H 8 pounds "all-up"? To include the rings/mounts, scope, iron sights and ammo???

If so, please fill us in on the components you used to reach that weight (barrel make and contour, stock, iron sights, etc.).

Obliged!

I just BOUGHT the Ruger.

Easy choice.

For you, I would just rebarrel to 9.3x62.

BMT

Fosteology: It is 8 pounds with scope(4X Leupold), two piece mount, and no ammo. The action is a pre 64 M70 H&H;barrel is a Krieger 410 stainless that was turned to a light contour at 24".This is the second barrel;first was an Atkinson.

It has a Brown Precision stock and no iron sights.I have had it since the late 80's IIRC.I did not build it to come out so light,but it just turned out that way.

The Hawkeye African with factory 23" comes in at 7lbs-14 stripped after I glassed it. With a slimmer barrel on your M70 you should have enough room to meet your weight with glass and rings.

You covered the pro-con very well. While it's hard to predict the future, I'd wager the 375 Ruger will continue to grow in popularity in Africa, as more PHs are exposed to it.
It's been a run away hit in AK since its intro, with a total of 10,000 units sold in the first 12 months of production. That's a staggering number in a cartridge of that class.

Pete

I heard the first year sales number for .375 Ruger rifle at 8,000 units, which is not so different from your number.

I got an early Ruger .375 African Hawkeye, then sold my .376 Steyr and a pair of H&Hs. (The .376 Steyr is a 9.3X64 case shortened 4mm and opened up from .366" to .375".)

jim

What do you want to kill with your new rifle? Are you looking for a lighter carry rifle that could be used against larger animals in a pinch? I vote for the 9.3X62. For a lighter rifle, you are going to have to compromise on your power level. If you want to hunt DG with it you may want to reconsider. However, I have killed 2 buffalo with its ballistic twin, the 9.3X74R I see you already have some heavier calibers.

Here is a place to get a BIG rifle very lightweight. I just don't know how bad the recoil is.
http://www.newultralight.com/HTML/custom-rifles.html

Most likely it will be used as a bushveld PG rifle(Kudu, eland, zebra, occassional Sable or warthog etc.) while on a combo buffalo or leopard hunt that might also step in as a back-up or primary for DG too. It would be for either a one rifle or two rifle safari, where if hunting DG, I'd pair it with my 416 rem. mag. It might also be used for croc (neck/spine)or hippo (brain) shot if I need to take a water shot at 100 yards+. I'd also prefer to carry it as my primary rifle in more open areas unless hot on a trail for buffalo in thick brush where I would certainly be carrying my 416 rem. mag.

Hope that helps. It certainly forces me to think about it better too. Thank you.

9.3x64 because it is a little different.

I get 2550fps with my factory Brenneke ammo loaded with 293gr TUG bullets. The load shoots consistently at 1.25" or less.

I have played around with mine at the range a little bit, but have not settled on a load yet. I have 250gr TSX's and Accubonds, 286gr Hornady's and Nosler Partitions. Maybe this summer if I can make some time.

It doesn't help when the factory ammo shoots so well and at a nice velocity to boot.

The 375 Ruger is a very practical choice, and that was my second choice to the Brenneke.

The only way I would get a 9.3x62 would be to replace my 338-06's, which I will never get rid of.

So pick practical or panache. Go with your gut instinct and have fun.

I have shot and owned all three at one time or another..The 375 Ruger is the most practical without a doubt, the 9.3x64 is just a complicated .375 H&H or 375 Ruger for all practical purposes and brass can be a real problem from time to time..The 9.3x62 is always a favorite and seems to suit your needs more than the others as you already have a .375 H&H so the first two are repetition of the H&H...

I presently have both a 375 H&H and a 9.3x62, I really like both calibersa as would anyone that has used either on game.

The 9.3x62 has an advantage, for use of a better word, in that it has an 06 type case, it will come within 100 to 150 FPS of the 9l.3x64 and thats close enough, it will take more rounds in the magazine. I can get right at 2500 FPS in the long tube with a 320 gr. Woodleigh. My 375 will get 2550 to 2600 FPS with a 300 gr. Woodleigh, so thats a push in that the 9.3x62 shoots a 20 more grains of bullet but about 50 to 100 FPS slower. I also get 2553 FPS with a 286 gr. Nosler and 2700 plus with a 250 gr. monolithic, Barnes, GS Customs or the Swift bullet in that weight.

My Brno mod. 21 9.3x62 weighs 7.5 pounds naked and recoil is a tad less than all the other calibers you refer to. It has been a great gun to pack around in the Tanzanian heat its light handy and very capable Cape buffalo, Lion, Leopard, gun, and would suit me fine for elephant if I had to use it on one. I would be hard pressed to choose between it and a .375 however.

In as much as my African hunting has slowed down the last few years, I happen to have both my 375 H&H and the 9.3x62 for sale, when one sells then I will definately keep the other in case I have a change of heart and decide on one more venture to Africa, but that will give you an idea of how I feel about your choices.

The 9.3x64 is a fine enough rifle, but just too many problems for what you get, if you just want something different it might suit you fine but IMO its neither fish nor fowl..but again thats just my opine.

Compared to the 375 H&H and the 9.3x62, how would you view the 338 Win Mag? I believe the 300gr Woodleigh runs about 2500 fps, so that would seem to be in the same neighborhood. Would this be an acceptable Cape Buffalo caliber?

"Acceptable", probably not as the minimum allowed for DG is the .375H&H.

Zimbabwe (and perhaps others?) if I'm not mistaken will allow a 9.3x62mm for DG.

I've heard that about the 375 H&H, but I wasn't sure which countries follow that rule. Also that the 9.3 is sometimes allowed too. It just seems that with proper loads, the 338 WM is pretty close to these two.

I have a 338 winny but would not consider it as suitable since legal restrictions do not recognise it. I have shot some NA carnivors with it, but none of them showed hit shock although CNS hits put them down on the spot.

Randy

Apart from brass availability, the 9.3x64 Brenneke is hands-down better for North America and excellent for Africa too.

Tom Smith,
The 338 rates right up there with the rest of them..A 338 Win at 2500 FPS with a big dose of H1000 at and a 300 gr. bullet is sufficient to kill the worlds biggest animals with proper shot placement..I can say the same for a 600 N.E., it needs proper shot placement also!

John G,
How do you figure the 9.3x64 rates hands down "better" for NA? The facts are it isn't as good as a 375 Ruger or H&H according to paper balistics.

However, in the real world, the 338, 9.3x62, 9.3x64, 375 Ruger, 375 H&H are all the same with proper bullet placement and proper bullet construction wherein the all perform to near perfection or at least that has been my experience..

The 375 Ruger!

More power, is extremely accurate, is flatter shooting and you have the luxury, if you ever choose to, to shorten the barrel down a little from your 23" down to 20" (more handier), while still equaling and surpassing 375 H&H ballistics from its longer barrel.

Since its intro, no other cartridge in recent history has grown in popularity so quickly as the 375 Ruger. And with more time, that trend will continue world wide along with more factory ammo becoming available in Africa.

From Gatehouse`s 375 Ruger Alaskan w/20" tube posted over in the "ask the gunwriters" section, his load of RL17 gave him 2700+ fps using a 300 grain Nosler. I`ll have to try RL17 myself in my own 375 Ruger Alaskan. The 250s and 260s will either close in on the 3000 fps mark or attain it. Excellent flat shooting at the longer ranges for African plains game ahould that need to to pass.

If you keep your barrel at 23", then the 375 Ruger will definately be an awesome cartridge, just about equaling the 375 Wby and approaching the more powerful 375 RUM.

The 9.3 is a very good round, but it isn`t a 375 Ruger.

We had a bear (brown) shot with a .375 Ruger and finished off with a 9,3x64 Brenneke -

Proof positive of the inherent, absolute, quantifyable and indisputable superiority of the 9,3x64 Brenneke.

The fact that the .375 was placed about liverish and the 9,3x64 into the head had nothing to do with the bears reaction to the shots.

Neither had bullet selection...

In fact, with a 9,3x64 Brenneke you just aim yonder, by that brush... and a 10 footer will drop.

Take a 9,3x64 to the city limits of Flaggstaff and point it about north and it will net you a moose...

For given reasons -

this post up to here was very much tongue in cheek

Turning serious, from a practical POV I can think of few closer



comparisons.

As for cases - get a campfire collective order deal going and I will do the negotiations with RWS.

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A 300 gr. bullet at 2700 FPS, a 260 or 270 at 3000FPS is pushing the string beyond belief IMO, or their chronograph is heywire or they have an over actitive imagination. I also expect their days of living on this side of the dirt are severaly limited! Yes, I know some folks that claim to load the 375 H&H to such velocities also.. I betcha brass doesn't last long. I would never load my .375 to those spects, to start with it means absolutly nothing in the field, so whats the point.

To say that one of these cartridges (9.3x62, 9.3x64, 375 H&H, 375 Ruger) is better than the other in the killing field or in trajectory is ridiculas and shows a lack of experience, they are all so close to equal that no-one could tell one iota of difference but I'm only baseing that on having used all but the .375 Ruger on DG at one time or the other. I have however built several .375 Rugers, done the load testing on them, and found it to be a wonderful cartridge but it is not the equivelent of the second coming as portrayed in some of these posts.

Good common sense stuff......free of the hyperbole and "alternate reality delusion" that often afflicts rifle loonies overwhelmed by a 75-100 fps increase in muzzle velocity,from one cartridge to another......differences between the 375H&H and Ruger?...........yawn

.............Then go read Gatehouse`s post in the other section (ask the gunwriters), and then tell him that he`s nuts or his chrony is all screwed up. Another 375 Ruger owner posted there, that he also came very close to the 2700 fps figure using the RL17 and a 300 gr bullet.

Perhaps there are a few under-estimations about the RL17/375 Ruger combo? Why is 2700-2725 fps using a 300 gr bullet so unbelievable from a 20" barrel?

300 gr Hornady factory ammo from a 20" Alaskan barrel as I`ve seen written, averages around 2570 fps. My personal results have averaged 2592 fps over my own chrony. #1) Tack on a little faster bore in any given particular Ruger Alaskan rifle. #2) A brand change of 300 gr bullet namely to the Nosler AB, which btw, will have less bearing surface against the bore than does a 300 gr round nosed Hornady. #3) And then for the final pee-azza-resist-aance, let`s add some RL17 into that mix as well.

Perhaps the RL17 can do for the 375 Ruger, what we already know that it does for the 300 WSM.

Don`t think 2700 fps can be achieved? You might want to think that one through again!

375 because you can get ammo easier

Bigsqueeze,

I am sorry. Obviously my post was not tongue in check enough.

Hard to believe, but there it is...

Bottomline - the.375 Ruger and 9,3x64 are for all ballistic practicallity equals.

That is my point and I am sticking to it.

...........Yeah, I knew your post was a little tongue in cheek! But, I thought I`d state "bullcrap" anyway!!! LOL!

In the field, the game won`t know the difference between the Ruger and the 9.3...However, the 9.3x64 could use a little more catching up.

You gotta admit though, the 375 Ruger from a 20" barrel is quite the powerhouse!

Glad we cleared that up.

As to the differences, I will save myself some time and borough from BOBINH



The achievement of both the 9,3x64 and the .375 Ruger is putting .375 H&Hish performance into a standard length action.

That was Wilhelm brennekes intend in the 1920s and he succeeded.

Same for Ruger and Hornady in 2006.

Kudos.

I think - I will take my 9,3 out for a stroll tonight.

It will probably overpenetrate a deer or pig.

Stayed tuned.

............The next time I go on a stroll hog hunting, I`ll take "mighty mouse" as usual. Use my 30 cal VLDs which btw don`t over-penetrate. They just blow their vitals all to heck.........Nyuk! Nyuk! Nyuk!

You`re right! 75-100 fps less velocity, makes no difference in the field. Though it is fun to experiment to get all we can because that`s part of human nature. Additional speed, doesn`t just end with cars, boats, planes or anything else that moves or that is propelled.

No, I don't need to read anybodys post on 2700 FPS out of a 20 inch barrel with 300 gr. bullets in a 375 Ruger, nor do I need to rethink it...I have a chronograph and I have done the tests, I know where the pressure indications are with that caliber and barrel length..I also know that you can do it, but I know its excessive any way you cut it..I can get 2800 out of a 375 H&H but its simply too hot a load. If you or anyone wants to load at that pressure thats your business but I refuse to do it, nor will I recommend it to someone else..

...........All well and good. But RL17 does have lower pressure curves. If the casings don`t show any of the usual pressure signs and the bolt lift is ok too, then more velocity is an option under those circumstances. Each individual rifle has its own tolerance for max loadings.

Even though you wish not to test or "re-think" other components (bullet and powder) that you "have not" previously tried, such as Gatehouse`s 375 Ruger Alaskan RL17 loadings using the 300 gr Nosler, it is nevertheless a fact, that when components are changed, there can also be velocity upswings.

Is there any real practical need for that small an increase in the field? Nope, not in the least!

But nevertheless, it can still be done.

I owned a .375 H&H in a Classic Stainless. Loved it...sold it.
I wanted a .375 Ruger African until my friend, who was a Game Management Officer in S Africa for 17 years shared some issues with the Ruger African in the field.

I finally chose what I should have gotten in the beginning...a CZ 550 American 9.3x62. It is my dream rifle. 9.4lbs loaded with a Burris 2x7x35, it is just perfect as an all-around gun. 2 crossbolts from the factory, very accurate, etc. The rough action became like butter after using a bit of Rig grease and cycling it a few hundred times during a movie I was watching.
I cannot emphasize enough just how much I like this gun and caliber!

And I apologize, I realize you were comparing the .375 Ruger with the 9.3x74, not the 9.3x62. Consider it info only, please!

The 9.3's in 62 or 64 are both noted classics and have very fine reputations throughout Africa. I have used a 62 for a while here and much preferred it to the .375

The 64's were never very common here in Zambia.

I am not familiar with the .375 Ruger but the 62 never failed me on dangerous game and it was a pleasure to shoot. Like I say a classic.

For what it's worth - I know one Zambian PH who argued with the same problem a couple years ago. After his gunsmith toyed with the the 9.x64 (on his pre-64 M-70) and could not reliably get better performance with it than the 9.3x62 they decided to go with the 375 Ruger. He loves it and I'll bet that shortly in the future the 375 Ruger will be a lot easier to find in most African countries than the 9.3x64.

I have a 9.3x62 and love it. I built it specifically to be an irons-only classic rifle to swat Moose, Bear or Kudu should I be lucky enough to stalk in nice and close. I'm also hoping to wangle a tag for Wood Bison this year and the 9.3 will figure highly on the list of rifles to take along. My current load is 62 grains of RL15 with 286gr Norma RNs that run just around 2400 fps. Phil also has a beauty little 9.3x62 that runs 7lbs ready to hunt so you could certainly step down in weight with very similar performance.

I also used a 375 Ruger this year in Zimbabwe and, despite some feeding issues, the cartridge worked very nicely, dropping a nice buffalo bull at a hair over 100 yards with a single shot through the shoulder. I also took other sundry trophies with it and it performed quite nicely. Though I doubt I would have noticed a difference were I using the Old Man's 375 H&H, which we planned to take with us. Now, with regard to Gatehouse, I happen to know him and would believe the numbers he's telling us. That said, I believe his 375 Ruger has been "Improved" which could be adding a few grains more powder. He certainly is a disciple of "The New King", McSwirley and all but I'm not convinced it's anything but a H&H on a diet.

All things being equal I prefer the 416s over the 375s. Woudl have used ag not only a 416 Remington but a M700 to boot!

Interesting. is the 9.3x64 still more available in African countries than the 375 Ruger?

I am debating the same question and I am leaning more towards the 9.3x64 or even the 9.3x62 but don't have the experience.

The 9,3X64 Brenneke is a great old round, no arguing that. But...it's not all that common; try to find loaded ammo in a hurry or a pinch; brass is extremely expensive and not always readily available.

It's a great plains game round that can take medium-heavy game like buffalo and lion. With 250's it shoots fast and flat.

Along came one of the best designed rounds now available, the 375 Ruger. It does everything the 9,3X64 does and is growing in popularity due to it's own merits and the fact that relatively inexpensive very nice rifles in 375 Ruger have been offered. The Hawkeye African is about a perfect combination of trim, fast handling, properly sight equipped, and hard hitting attributes ever mass produced. It doesn't cost a month's salary, either.

All this makes the 375 Ruger round the better choice, since it has a bright future, well earned. Both do the same thing, but the Ruger round is a commercial success, while the 9,3X64 Brenneke is obsolescent and inordinately expensive. I've owned and used both and can't tell two beans worth of practical difference in performance.

All that being said I like my Hawkeye African 9,3X62 better. None of these rounds, 9,3X62, 9,3X64, and 375 Ruger, are stoppers by any stretch. It comes down to picking your personal poison and going out and kill with it.

It is probably a safe bet that there are already a lot more 375 Rugers in the world than there are 9.3x64's.
And as my daughter so thoughtfully pointed out to her moose hunter this past season - the 9.3x64 is "cute, sort of like a little sister to the .375 Ruger"

Jet: What were your friend's "issues with the Ruger African in the field"? Thanks.

Revival of this old thread brought back memories of sitting around with Ed and Carl, talking rifles and sharing a breakfast of sheep and salmon at that old trapper cabin. Knowledgable rifle loonies and good guys of the kind we don't see often enough these days.

Phil, that's just how a woman would describe it.

A man would more accurately describe the 9.3X64 as the classy, sexy little sister to the 375 Ruger...the little sister who you pine for but makes your worry that she might just be out of your league.

I must also take issue with your previous singular anecdote of the gunmaker who couldn't get a X64 to run any fastEr than a X62. Given the difference in case capacities, it's a physical impossibility that the X64 can't achieve higher velocities absent some extraneous factor. My 9.3X64 pretty easily pushes a 286 grain TSX or Partition at 2675 fps...something the 9.3X62 can only dream of.

As to the original question, I believe a rifle meeting the criteria specified could be built in 9.3X62, 9.3X64, 375 Ruger or 375 H&H. The terminal performance differences between the four cartridges don't amount to much. The pertinent question is, how much effort are you willing to put into your relationship with your rifle?

Do the 9.3x64 Brenneke . I am on my 3rd and am quite fond of them Have taken them to Africa and home here in Canada. There are a number of us that are shooting the 64 and all are very happy with the round. HUNTINGDON die specialties has lots or RWS brass and dies so easy to get the brass right at home in the US.

That's excellent rifle-loony "logic": Buy a rifle in XYZ chambering because a group of rifle loony buddies likes it!

Build the 9.3 X 62 and you'll soon hunt evrythig you can with it. That is a great cartridge! IF you ever go to Zim, take the .416 along to keep them happy.

You guys do realize this thread is almost 5 years old??????

Perfectly, John, I have purchased/built six 9.3x62 rifles during the past 9 years and had several .338WMs and two .375H&H rifles when I got my first in May, 2006....some "Looney" from Montana, sorta talked me into it.....

Seems perfectly normal to me, my spouse, wellllll.....

Yeah, that can happen!

I've gotten to the point where I rarely own more than one rifle in a certain chambering. Well, with a few exceptions....

In my Ruger African in 9.3x62 I'm getting 2650 fps with 250 grain Accubonds using Mule Deer's RL-15 data. With my Ruger Alaskan in 375, I'm getting 2772 fps with a 250 grain Barnes TTSX and H-380. You decide!

5 years old or not, this couldn't have appeared at a better time for me, here's to reading old schitt!

A baron would pick .370 Sako. The .375 Ruger, 9,3x62 and 9,3x64 are peasant cartridges not so the 9,3x66. What someone else likes or uses is of no consequence to me and "following the heard" is boring.

I think it's a safe bet that the opposite is the case.
The 375 Ruger is hardly sold outside the US and Canada. As big as that market may be - at least in Europe there are still thousands of 9,3x64 being used. Looking at an online platform for used guns for Germany only, there at least a dozen 9,3x64 bolt actions for sale at any time.
Pretty sure there are quite a few spread all over Africa as well. In Russia it is used by the military as a sniper cartridge. Cheap ammo available from there.

Just my 50 cents.

Was at a gun show this weekend; guess what I saw? Selling a few old boxes of 9.3x64 Brenneke TUG (sp?). I almost bought them to then get a rifle

I'm now looking at keeping it simple with maybe a .338 to go with my 375.

Please PM me the platform. Curious.

From another Lefty

I bought a .375 Ruger guide gun just because....

The action was a bit rough and gritty, but smoothed up nicley with a bit of polishing here and there. Feeding is perfect with spritzer and round nose bullets. Accuracy is excellent right around 1 inch with everything. Iron sights are right on at 50 yards.

The gun fits me very well, easy to get behind and surprisingly is the easiest rifle to shoot off hand. It holds really steady and have no problem ringing steel targets off hand out to 200 yards.
Recoil is a big push with the brake and pretty sharp w/o.

Weight with sling and 3 rounds is 9 1/2lbs.

Rifle will not go to Africa but will be used in Alaska and here for elk.

Lefty C

The 375 Ruger is my favorite medium bore - a truly practical modern design.

However, I still think the best use for a Ruger Hawkeye African (or Alaskan) is as a platform to re-bore to a proper heavy medium - the 404 Ruger cartridge!

Re-bore the 30-06 barrel to 9.3X62 and call it good. JES will do it for $225.00, including return shipping.

http://35caliber.com/2.html

Nice classic 9.3x64 Brenneke for sale on GunsAmerica.com; needs a little work.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/921129824/WILHELM-BRENNEKE-MAUSER-9-3X64.htm

Nosler data: [img]http://static1.squarespace.com/stat...0a69dedcbcaa8/1409864222223/?format=750w[/img]

From what little I know about heavy and plains African game, can't think of much I couldn't do with my 9.3-62 loaded with 320 gr Woodleigh softs and solids to 2400 fps.

That combo is a real hammer and one of the most efficient cartridges on the '06 sized case.

What barrel length to get that velocity?

I also do not think you need 320 gr bullets.

According to Ruger they sold 8000 375 Ruger rifles the very first year. I sincerely doubt there have been half that many 9.3x64's ever built but I would love to see your statistics. Additionally sales of the 375 Ruger have been strong every years since it's introduction.

25" barreled 98 Mauser built on a Heym action, RL-17 powder under those Woodleighs.

Why would you think I 'don't need' 320 gr bullets JG?

You can use them if you want, but they're not needed. 286 gr. or even 300 gr A-Frames would be more than sufficient for use in the 9.3x62.

Success depends more on bullet placement and construction than on bullet weight.

Too late for that, have already filed my quarter rib sight to be on with the 320 gr Woodleigh softs and solids, then had my Smith blue it, my rifle wears a heavy duplex 1.5-5 Leupold in QD rings, it wont be shot at longer ranges by me anyway.

I'd rather my 9.3 be a mini 375 H&H than treat it as some basturdized Euro 338 Win Mag with the lighter bullet offerings, I like heavy for caliber bullets.

That's a pretty good reply there, Ray!

In my rather lengthy handloading experience (and more limited hunting experience) of .338 Win Mags, .340 Wby, .35 Whelens, and .375 H&H's, I'd probably agree that there wouldn't be much, if any, advantage of one over the other in North America, and perhaps little to none on African PG. So the issue is NOT which of these has some magic the others do not possess on soft-skinned game here or yonder.

However, since I have no experience on African DG, I'll resist the temptation to pontificate based on ballistics alone -- BUT, I can read, and have read, what pros like Ganyana and Dr. Robertson have had to say on such issues. In their EXPERIENCE, the 9.3 X 62 has been a personal favorite for anything up to and including Cape buffalo. Elephant? They basically concur that the 9.3 X 62 is as effective on elephant using solids as anything else, EXCEPT for a follow-up of a wounded ele in thick brush!

My choice today, for a medium, is the 9.3 X 62 loaded with either the 286 Nosler Partition at 2600+ fps or the 250 AB at 2700+ using RL-17 at about 64,000 psi. I've shot several black bears using both bullets. The 286 NP has the same momentum as a 250 NP from my former .340 Wby at 3000 fps. My 9.3 X 62 is a Tikka T3 Lite with a 22.5" barrel that comes in a 7.7 lbs with a 3 - 9 X 40 scope, sling and 4 cartridges. It's very handy as a walk-about and in a treestand. It will reach out with authority to 500 yards for ANY moose-size game.

If I were ever going to Africa again, it would be the only rifle I'd take. QL says it should shoot the 320gr Woodleigh at 2460 fps at just under 64,000 psi (same rifle in .338 Win Mag qualifies for 64, 000 psi). I'm happy that Ray can get 2500 fps from his using the 320 Woodleigh.

An Internet search has proven there are few places in Africa where the 9.3 X 62 isn't legal for any DG.

My current plans are to have some to try by this Spring.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

I haven't hunted outside of US yet, but have a 375 Ruger Guide Gun with the 20" barrel. I have worked up two loads for this rifle and happy with the results. Work done to rifle was bolt rails, trigger sear honed and trigger adjusted to 2 pounds. Barrel free floated and action glass bedded. Using a Leupold VX3 2.5-8x36mm duplex scope and Alaskan Arms quick detach rings.
Load 1. 78.5grs. RL17 with a Nosler 300gr. Accubond chronographed at 2590fps. 1/2" 3-shot group at 100yds. This is my elk load.
Load 2. 73.0grs. RL17 with a Woodleigh 350gr. PP bullet chronographed at 2391fps. just under 1" 3-shot group at 100yds.
As of right now I have the 300gr. Accubond sighted in with a 200yds zero.
Thinking about getting a Luepold VX3i 1.5-5x20mm with heavy duplex and another set of Alskan Arms quick detach rings for the 350gr. PP Woodleigh load and sight it in for 100yds. zero.
That way I will be set when I can go to Africa and Alaska hunting.