Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Claude Dallas getting out in Feb!

Dallas...not Carter..................

OK, I agree. One will never know for sure, but there was a trial, a verdict, and it sounds as if he served his sentence in full.

There is a big difference in being 25 and 55, the man might have changed. I guess we will see.

I'm real happy there are laws in place that won't allow him to make any money from this once he comes out.

In Carters case his verdict was overturned so he was not guilty anymore of the crime he commited, therefore entitled to profit from his story.

I remember reading the case in one of the LEO magazines,, there was some thing about this causing the state to arm the wardens..

Does any one know if the wardens were issued weapons at that time..

I have no love for a cop killer, as I still wear the badge,,, but if he has done his time, and the state cuts him loose then so be it,, hope he gets the chance to start over

I am with friend Stick on this Claude Dallas deal. Obviously I don't know diddly about the case save what I read in various articles at the time and here and now.

He has done the time that a jury gave him. Let him go and see what happens next I guess.

I'd say something was wrong somewhere if the DA or prosecuting attorney or what ever the call them up there had two dead game wardens, the man that did it, and could not/would not run him for capital murder. I don' t know what it was but something. There was a jury trial so it wasn't a plea bargin.

I have lived long enough in this old world to know and have known cases first hand where there is trouble between two men that no law, or arbitration or what ever will settle. Either one will have to leave the country or there will be a killing sooner or later.

This may have been one of those cases.

BCR

The state definatly pushed for murder, the jury though could only come back with a manslaughter conviction. There were a lot of problems between the members of the jury. Some wanted to hang the accused and some wanted to turn him loose. The manslaughter conviction was a workable compromise.

Jeff
You do not believe Weaver? Certainly he was a liar about his "tunnel rat" experience in Viet Nam and certainly he is not someone I would have much use for, for anything. But the governemnt's case was built around a sawed-off shotgun. A single crime I find petty.

For it, LEOs were willing to murder two Weavers, uninvolved in the hack job, regardless the perp. Between Weaver and Waco I fear the Feds are way out of control and there has been zero accountability. Degan may be considered a victim also, but he excercised extremely poor judgement to end up where he did.

The agent with Degan clearly lied about the circumstances. What has been done about that?

Weaver went to jail for failing to answer the summons and was not convicted of the original crime. There was little hesitation on the part of the jury about that point.

I believe the plan was to fire-bomb the cabin, too. I cannot imagine Horiuchi sleeping nights. If he does, my sympathy spins to antipathy, immediately.
art

You're kidding, right? He killed two people. How is that trivial?

[bleep] dude,do you live in a cave?.............

Huh? Do I have to live in a cave to think that killing someone is emphatically not trivial? Even if it's justified, it's an extreme measure not taken lightly.

Claude Dallas........even though I've read the book.......I wasn't there, so all I can say is there was a reason he was not found guilty of murder........there has been speculation that he would have been acquitted of all charges if he hadn't administered a "cou de gras" to the wardens........he did his time and I hope the rest of his life is peaceful!


I have met Randy Weaver.......I won't say I believe everything he has to say, I will say I believe him over the Feds who were trying to cover their backsides when they screwed up and got caught! If those ninja suit wearing jackbooted thugs shot my son in the back.......I don't believe they would have found me sitting in my cabin waiting for that coward sniper to shoot my wife in the head!

.......even if you assume that Weaver was guilty of cutting a barrel too short, I know the court system said he wasn't guilty, but, let's assume he was........was a $200 tax worth the lives of those who died???

Waco?? I have often wondered........how many more body bags would have been filled with Feds if the jackboots that pulled off the botched raid had been up against a small group of motivated and competent shooters, instead of Koresh and his followers???? From everything I have seen, the Feds got off lucky in that fiasco!

In both cases, the Feds could EASILY have arrested Weaver and Koresh without any loss of life......instead, they chose to grandstand and people died.......for that, someone in power should pay dearly!

If you ever doubt that the Feds are out of control.......do a quick search for ATF abuses....I assure you, there is NO shortage of examples to read about and they will make you sick........look for the case of John Lawmaster and read what happened to him........John was my friend.........

There was a documentary on tv about dallas awhile back. It stated that had been poaching for a long time. He had been caught and written up for it. He made a statement to several people that if he was caught again they would never take him alive. It also said that he was poaching on private property, the rancher that owned the property called Pogue and reported it. Pogues regular partner wasn't available so he called on Elms to go with him. I've also talked to people that knew the wardens and they say that Pogue was well known for being a jerk but the the other guys was realy a nice guy. In my opinion just because a guy is a real jerk and a pain is no reason to kill him. If Dallas hadn't been doing wrong and had the reputation for doing wrong he wouldn't have had to worry about getting caught or having to "defend" hisself. Again, just my own opinion but, I don't think he got what he deserved and shouldn't be getting out.

I remember when Dallas was on the loose.
The wardens up here were looking out for him, also.
There has been so much BS spead about this one, that a fella can't decipher fact from truth from BS.

Up here, however our game Wardens are thought of as lower than pond scum.
My hunting buddy for years, best man at my wedding, and a heckuva Game warden summed it up like this.
"if a cop pulls a guy over and gives him a ticket for speeding through a stop sign, he says" Well, I was wrong , ya. thanks anyway"
If a warden gives him a ticket for ANYTHING, he says" no good for nuthin'@#&^##@ holes! Wait'll I see him again!"
Like they have some right to do whatever , as long as a Warden doesn't see them.
I got no time for crap like that, or any of the nonesense, fables or all out rumours about this charecter or the case.
I even skip over the song on Ian Tyson's CD that he wrote about it.
Catnthehat

People die all day,every day. Get used to it,as it ain't gonna change.

My intent wasn't to slight the two gents in question,as much as a hint to look at the big picture.

So I'm not gonna try to ride into town on a moral high horse and beckon punishment for a dude that mighta only been guilty of rightfully saving his own hide,has paid his dues and deserves a shot at peaceful anonymity for those troubles.

I plainly stated,that there's lotsa Politicians who have far dirtier hands,for less compelling reasons.....................

I've read the book, and Ian Tyson's song about Dallas is one of my favorites. I neither support or condemn Dallas. I think he served his sentence and probably just wants to be left alone. There's lots of other convicted criminals out in society who have done worse. I doubt that this case would have gathered all the public attention, books, movies, songs, etc., if Dallas had killed two regular citizens instead of Game Wardens..............

As much as we may enjoy our banter about Claude Dallas and select which side of the fence we want, the system (our system) of justice was applied, a jury reached a verdict and the verdict has been carried out. The rest of the story may never be fully told despite a witness to the killing (Jim Stevens), but, for those interested they can access the transcript of the trial and form an opinion based on the facts the jury had to evaluate. Short of this, why would we try to second guess a jury verdict of his peers?

But, if you are ever in Paradise Valley, NV, north of Winnemucca, stop by the main local bar and buy a round, bring up the subject of CD and hear the stories of those that were and are still in the area when CD was around.

Since I have a very negative opinion of anyone who kills a LOE, I'd like to read the trial transcripts, how do I access them?

Jeff

The fact that he had them incapacitated apparently, and then shot them execution style , says volumes to me. I still think he should never see light of day.

Ah, but do you also have a very negative opinion of any LEO who abuses his authority or is corrupt.

Niether of which, of course, is a capatal offense, and no excuse to perform an execution. But is nauseating none the less.

Handloader, I think that you raise a very important point, one that I think is all too often overlooked. We have a justice system, which while we all know is not perfect, was applied in this case. I think that there is a real tendency on the part of all of us (myself included) to jump on the system any time that the outcome is not what we wish it to be. Count me along with those who do not condone wanton killing, but who do feel that there is more to the event than we will probably ever know.

LEOs who abuse their power should be dealt with within the legal system. No, it doesn't always work out, but good LEOs don't like bad LEOs any better than you or I. Besides that, what proof is there that either of the LEOs who Dallas killed were either corrupt or abusive?

From what I've read here, a lot of people "heard" stories about Bill Pogue being a bad guy, but he might just have been "tough" and the stories were floated by people he had caught breaking the law. What about Elms, was he a bad guy too?

When was the last time that you wrote a letter to, or made an appointment with, somebody in your state's F&G hierarchy because you had a negative interation with a F&G officer?

When was the last time that you wrote a letter to, or made an appointment with, somebody in your state's F&G hierarchy because you had a positive interaction with a F&G officer?

I have done both, 1 got me an apology and the other a "thank you" the next time he, it was the same guy, stopped me to check my license.

Jeff