Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Peep sight accuracy and range

jim62, discipline as you mentioned is the key. I hunt with the premise that there is no animal out there, no matter how big or small, that I'll take a chance of wounding just because I don't have the time or ability to make a careful, well placed shot within range.

Nearly so. One time I was sitting on a stump deer hunting when it started snowing light fluffy snow. Before I went in I had six inches of snow stacked up on the rifle. A scope wouldn't have helped though.

I'm glad to hear you are going to give it a go. Iron sights still have their uses.

On unwounded deer with good aperture sights, [lots of emphasis on good sights]. I feel you should be able to go to 200 yards on deer, 250 yards on elk. The 250 yards with a 30-30 is a stretch unless you are using pointy bullets.

That range involves using a rest or a tight sling for most anything over 100 yards and for sure over 150. Generally no tight sling use on Marlins because of the way it changes zero so maybe a set of sniper sticks would be a help. I recommend you demonstrate to yourself that you can hold that 6in accuracy from field positions with that particular rifle.

One easy way to go on the Marlin might be an XS sight systems setup.

For me however I would use a Willliams Foolproof with target knobs and an XS front sight [if I couldn't find a sour dough].
I would sight it to hit 2" above the top of blade at 100 yards.

A six o'clock hold could be better but it takes some practice and you don't always have the side view for a reference at long range.

My version of good aperture sights also include tang rears with white bead or gold bead sights.
I currently have an 1899 .250 Savage with that setup and the smaller aperture folds out of the way for poor light conditions. This is the best sighting arrangement I have found for the way I hunt.

A sourdough front with a peep rear is great. Also good is a gold bead filed to a 45 and "flat topped" with a file then cold blued.

As far as Firesight fronts I have two weapons, a 243 with a Redfield red front bead and a 22 Mag with a Firesight front. I like the Redfield front but the jury is still out on the firesight. It gets hard to use for precise work past 50 yards.

Making sure the animal is legal has me carrying binoculars full time.

I have killed a few farther out than 200-250 but the light was good and I had some time. I did kill a large porcupine at a little less than 400 yards with a peep sighted Model 88 Winchester but it took four shots to get on it.

FWIW I never had a scope on a rifle until I was 28, I'm 62.

For cheaper practice; Put a similar set of sights on a 22 and use it a lot. I have a Marlin 25 and a 39M and I try to shoot the little silhouette style targets with them.

One last item, do shoot the rifle in varied light conditions with varying angles from the sun. I get some large variations in zero, especially windage when i am not under cover of the shooting shed.

Good luck and have fun.

Thank you all for sharing all that experience and insight. I've been looking at my choices for a new rifle that will definitely wear a receiver sight of some type..probably either an XS ghost ring or Williams sight, and I've also decided now that this setup will only be used in areas where my shots will be limited to 150 yards. From what the majority of you have said, those types of sights should be quite adequate to that distance assuming there's adequate light and that I do my part.

Next question: Rifle and cartridge

I'm going for a fast-handling, compact carbine chambered for a round that will be enough to cleanly take whitetails at that range (up to 150 yards) without a lot of fuss (read recoil..not a .45-70)...not marginal, not more than really needed..just right. Here's the choices I think I've narrowed it down to:

Marlin 336BL(18"bbl/37"OAL) .30-30
" " 336c (20"bbl/38.5"OAL) .35 Rem
" " 1894 (20"bbl/37.5"OAL) .44 Mag
" " 1894c (18.5"bbl/36"OAL) .357 Mag
Ruger 77RSI (18.5"bbl/38.5"OAL) .308win

I realize that the .44 is marginal and the .357 Mag probably inadequate at 150 yards, but I think that with LEVERevolution or Buffalo Bore loads even the .357 could be enough, but I want to get some other opinions besides my own. Also, if I go with the .308 I'd load it down around .300 Savage velocities to cut down on recoil. So what do you all think; Anyone have experience with any of the above setups or recommendations? Price isn't really an issue at this point.

and yes, I'm impressed too. Really nice ram, sir, and good looking 99 too.

There are a lot of .38 caliber cartridges that meet those requirements. The .38-72, .38-70, .35-50, .38-55, .38-56 would all do it easily. Their track records are pretty peachy for that sort of thing.

A .32-40 is a sweet enough cartridge for 200 yds and in with room to spare. Or the exotic .33-47. Not that the deer will ever understand the difference.

And then on to the .30 calibers, of which you list only two of many. What do you have against the .30-40?

There are so many perfectly perfect rifle cartridges for deer, why would you even think, for even a half second, about pistol cartridges?

Brent

Hmmmmm...really I don't have a thing against the .30-40, or any of the others you listed for that matter; I just haven't seen many rifles so chambered. In fact, other than the .38-55 and .30-40, I'm not even the slightest bit familiar with those cartridges and wouldn't even know what rifles they can be found in. But hey, that's why I asked for suggestions, so thank you. As far as considering the pistol cartridges...should I not? I haven't shot either of them in a rifle, but on paper at least it looks as though they should be enough..but again, that's why I'm asking. I'll do a search on those other cartridges you've suggested and take a look.

I mistyped the .35-50 is supposed to be .38-50 (rem), a caliber that I think I like the best of the bunch but have never owned. There are some .35s that I don't know much about but are certainly good deer killers. There are many older cartridges that are just as great today as ever. For your purposes, they are all nearly ideal, making large holes on both ends of any deer around. I use a .38-72 which is way overkill for a deer rifle, but why not? I have used it on antelope and will again this year, and maybe kudu if I ever go back to Namibia and elk of course.

Some of the calibers may need to be custom jobs but then you didn't say that was ruled out. I pretty much look at all rifles as likely to be rebarreled as used cars are likely to be re-tired. No big deal for most of them and reamers, and brass, etc are readily accessible. And then there are the used guns....

Pistol cartridges are for pistols as far as I am concerned. Your mileage may differ, but they are a push to make into what you want, and then, when you do, you are pretty much limited to trying them for anything bigger or further, if some opportunity like that comes up down the road.

Jim

Your quotes on the shooting at ram targets at 500 from a rest and having shots all over the place.... it is actually very easy, those of us who shoot know what conditions tell us by looking at them... there is never really a time and place you'd be guaranteed to be able to ethically(IMHO) take a shot. Not even at 100 yards. Consquently you choose and use... I know I can't shoot early or late, need enough light, need conditions to be right.. just like with a scope on the gun, but a scope is more forgiving.

I worked my way up in service rifle iron only highpower mathes... I hold the P100,Distinguished Riflemans, the NRA495 club(with no sighters...) High Master at both highpower and long range all with a service rifle and ap rear post front... So I"ve probably got almost as much experience as you do in shooting irons. Even am 2/3 of the way to distinguished with a pistol and irons....but I've only shot 3 pistol matches... So I do have similar experience with the irons.

Its ALWAYS about whether you can pull off the particular shot with what you have in your hands, at that time/distance/conditions and so on... I know game has walked away from me more than 2 times due to me not wanting to rush things...

Brent,
I can certainly see you point concerning the use of the pistol cartridges. The reason I've included them is because they seem to have a fairly good track record on medium game at short ranges, they're easy to find factory ammo for in case I need some in a pinch or just get lazy on the reloading, and they're fairly inexpensive as are the reloading equipment for them. I'm looking into those other cartridges right now that you suggested and am intrigued. I do love the idea of using a less common older rifle. I have just have to weight the benefits of the cool factor against the trouble and expense of buying and shooting a rifle like that. As you mentioned, I didn't rule out custom jobs and would certainly consider going that route if I discovered something that seemed perfect to me..even if I had to wait a bit for the finances to do it. As far as trying to use those pistol cartridges for anything more demanding..I wouldn't, and that's another reason I'm considering them. This will be a rifle for a very specific niche and anything else will be covered by a different gun.

Those are all good enough reasons. And it will be your gun in the end. If you check out some of the alternatives, and then go for a .357 max well, at least you looked, and that's good enough.

I shoot mostly - well pretty much only - singleshots which barrel pretty easily. I know where to look for components and I don't ever think about factory ammo so I guess it is easier for me to go some of these directions. For instance, I knew a place to borrow a .38-72 reamer, had a barrel ready to go, and brass for that reamer is made with one pass starting with .405 Win brass by Hornady. I already had .38 moulds from an earlier day with a .38-55. So, it was about like falling off the log. Still, some, such as the .38-55 are pretty simple to do, even with factory ammo and off the shelf rifles. Look at a .38-55 Pedersoli highwall - recently well reviewed by a friend. And easily opened up to .38-50 Rem or any of the longer .38s.

Lever guns abound by the dozens, new and used. A new Marlin "Cowboy" in .38-55 swings about like a bird gun for me. A super ticket for what you are about to do. Put a Marbles tang sight on it set for 200 yds and use the barrel sights for everything under 150 yds. That might be the easiest, off the shelf deer rifle for what you are considering.

Good luck,
Brent

Brent,
I did look into those cartridges and I'll definitely add at least some of them to my list of possibilities. The .30-40, .32-40 and .38-55 would all do well for me I think if I can find one in the right rifle. Thanks again for those suggestions; they likely wouldn't have occurred to me.
-AJ

aj020204, you have two of the best on your list, the 30-30 and the 308. I hunt quite a bit with two equivalent cartridges, the 303 and 300 Savages. Load the 308 down a little to reduce recoil if you like, shoot 150 grain bullets and I think you'd have a mid-range deer rifle that would fill the bill. The 30-30 choice goes without saying. But, the 308 seems to me to be a tad bit more versatile especially if you ever hunt game larger than deer.

I can't see crap down open sites at all.. I need a scope with my eye sight... however those rifles that have open sights with a Lyman Peep Site installed, sure make things a lot easier to focus on and see something...

On peeps- with either an XS or Williams rear and a good post style front I am capable to 200 yards and I'm no amazing shot.

on the rifel- you are now talking my favorite guns- leverguns and marlins at that. For what you describe I think the old 30-30 is about perfect for what you described. I would look for a good deal on a used rack, plenty of 336s out there.

Oh and I forgot to add: The 44mg and 357 when properly loaded are more than capable to 150 yards. You will pick up an extra 200fps out of the rifle. If you are a reloader and I think you said you were, check out www.shootersforum.com and www.beartoothbullets.com Marshal Stanton runs both those sites. His hardcast lead bullets are amazing and he personally has taken dozens of deer at the ranges you are talking about with a 357 levergun shooting hardcast lead bullets, 180gr I believe. He is a great guy and very happy to share his knowledge and experience.