24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 59
W
Campfire Greenhorn
Offline
Campfire Greenhorn
W
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 59
I agree with Keith,in a 223 shoot the 40 or 50gr at 3500 to 3800 with 12 or 14 twist and watch the feathers fly. If you want to shoot heavier slugs go to the 6Br. or 243.

Last edited by Wickens; 07/31/10.
BP-B2

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 852
I
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
I
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 852
keith,

You are in sooooooooooo far over your head,it's HILARIOUS.

The 75A-Max's ogive location,is all but identical to the 50V-Max. A SAAMI throat will kiss the 75 and 50 both and very nicely...lengthening same,is the last thing a guy wants to do.

A 21" 1-8" 223AI that kisses the 75A-Max at 2.450" COAL will also kiss the 50's and 40's,if one is inclined. From a 200yd zero at 2500',standard atmosphere,that loads requiresless than 27.75MOA to 1K.

Keep talking out your azz,the humor is sublime!............


Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,195
K
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
K
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,195
Once again, you don't know your ass from third base. My 223 AI OAL is 2.328 with a 55g Ballistic tip, and that is after 1500 rounds down the tube!

You have a long throated chamber at 2.450!

Of course, you have to seat the bullet out so that you have room for powder space!

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 852
I
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
I
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 852
Dummy,

Where is the 75A-Max ogive's location in your throat(kissing) and what is that COAL? Of course this is where it gets silent,because you are only capable of talking out your azz.

Gettin' a kick outta your "knowledge" of powder encroachment too. You are on a roll!...............

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 476
B
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
B
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 476
Mr.ImitatedOften:

I agree with Keith and others on their point; the 75 gr. bullet in a fast twist [1x7-10] .223 or .223AI is traveling at a much slower FPS (3000 or less FPS range) than a 40 or 50 gr bullet in a 1X12 twist (3300-3700) .223Remington, thus the trajectory is much flatter.

This is a result of the relatively long length and weight of the 75 gr. bullet, the need to seat out further rather than in or sacrifice even more powder capacity.

The flatter trajectory of the lighter bullets (0-250 yeards) allows the owner to just do more things...AND the 1X12 will still shoot a 60 gr bullet well, always shoot the 40 gr. well, AND shoot the 70 gr. Speer SP bullet !!!

I don't hear much on the frangibilty of the 75 gr. bullets in the fast twists; an important consideration i.e. ricochet reduction when hunting in /near populated areas and farms.

So, the faster twist rifling is the best of both worlds for versatility in the .223 calibers.

Last edited by BuckeyeSpecial; 07/31/10.
IC B2

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 852
I
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
I
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 852
What rifle were you shooting the 75A-Max in and how'd she do for you?

Laffin'.............

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,580
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,580
I don't always agree with IO's delivery, but he knows exactly what he's talking about here.

The throat required for a 75 A-Max vs a shorter bullet? Here's a thousand words with the 75 A-Max and the 50 V-Max seated to touch in my rifle. The mag box may require massaging to run a 75, but not the throat.

[Linked Image]

As far as long range trajectory, go back and read what IO said again.

In my 1-8 twist 223AI, I get 3050 with the 75 A-Max and 3600+ with the 50 V-Max. Want an education? Run those numbers in your trajectory program and see which one shoots flatter.

And frangibility of the 75 A-Max? You have to see it to believe it, it will seriously mess stuff up.


Anybody who seriously concerns themselves with the adequacy of a Big 7mm for anything we hunt here short of brown bear, is a dufus. They are mostly making shidt up. Crunch! Nite-nite!

Stolen from an erudite CF member.
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 852
I
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
I
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 852
Don't be stealin' my thunder...I was reeling in a whole herd of Dummies at once...............(grin)

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,580
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,580
Fair nuff, want me to delete? grin


Anybody who seriously concerns themselves with the adequacy of a Big 7mm for anything we hunt here short of brown bear, is a dufus. They are mostly making shidt up. Crunch! Nite-nite!

Stolen from an erudite CF member.
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 852
I
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
I
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 852
Enough remains,to hook more than a few...if'n they can muster the courage................(grin)

IC B3

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,391
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,391
Originally Posted by RickF
I don't always agree with IO's delivery, but he knows exactly what he's talking about here.

The throat required for a 75 A-Max vs a shorter bullet? Here's a thousand words with the 75 A-Max and the 50 V-Max seated to touch in my rifle. The mag box may require massaging to run a 75, but not the throat.

[Linked Image]

As far as long range trajectory, go back and read what IO said again.

In my 1-8 twist 223AI, I get 3050 with the 75 A-Max and 3600+ with the 50 V-Max. Want an education? Run those numbers in your trajectory program and see which one shoots flatter.

And frangibility of the 75 A-Max? You have to see it to believe it, it will seriously mess stuff up.


My .22's all have 0 freebore. In the .223/.223AI case....... a 50VMax seated just kissing the lands is one boattail length below the neck/shoulder junction. I don't use 75's, but I'd guess in that chamber one of those bullets would be seated pretty well down into the case.

You said to run the trajectory numbers and see which shoots flatter, so I did. In my .223, velocity is 3640 with a 50....velocity in the .223AI is 3825. Trajectory under conditions where I shoot.....6500', 80*F, with 225yd zero......the 75 drops -4.6300, -15.4400, -32.3500.......the 50 from a 223AI drops -3.2300, -11.3400, and -24.8500. At 700yds the 50 has 14" less drop. Wind drift is a different thing, but you said "flatter."

I'm not saying 50's are a good bullet for targets at 700yds, or even good for 500yd targets. And arguing about what bullet to shoot is pretty silly. People should use whatever they want. Doesn't matter to me, shouldn't matter to anyone.


Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 852
I
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
I
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 852
Originally Posted by Ackman
Originally Posted by RickF
I don't always agree with IO's delivery, but he knows exactly what he's talking about here.

The throat required for a 75 A-Max vs a shorter bullet? Here's a thousand words with the 75 A-Max and the 50 V-Max seated to touch in my rifle. The mag box may require massaging to run a 75, but not the throat.

[Linked Image]

As far as long range trajectory, go back and read what IO said again.

In my 1-8 twist 223AI, I get 3050 with the 75 A-Max and 3600+ with the 50 V-Max. Want an education? Run those numbers in your trajectory program and see which one shoots flatter.

And frangibility of the 75 A-Max? You have to see it to believe it, it will seriously mess stuff up.


My .22's all have 0 freebore. In the .223/.223AI case....... a 50VMax seated just kissing the lands is one boattail length below the neck/shoulder junction. I don't use 75's, but I'd guess in that chamber one of those bullets would be seated pretty well down into the case.

You said to run the trajectory numbers and see which shoots flatter, so I did. In my .223, velocity is 3640 with a 50....velocity in the .223AI is 3825. Trajectory under conditions where I shoot.....6500', 80*F, with 225yd zero......the 75 drops -4.6300, -15.4400, -32.3500.......the 50 from a 223AI drops -3.2300, -11.3400, and -24.8500. At 700yds the 50 has 14" less drop. Wind drift is a different thing, but you said "flatter."

I'm not saying 50's are a good bullet for targets at 700yds, or even good for 500yd targets. And arguing about what bullet to shoot is pretty silly. People should use whatever they want. Doesn't matter to me, shouldn't matter to anyone.



3825fps with a 223AI,is a 50gr PIPE Dream...though I like my 75's at 3150fps...............

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,391
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,391
Originally Posted by ImitatedOften
Originally Posted by Ackman
Originally Posted by RickF
I don't always agree with IO's delivery, but he knows exactly what he's talking about here.

The throat required for a 75 A-Max vs a shorter bullet? Here's a thousand words with the 75 A-Max and the 50 V-Max seated to touch in my rifle. The mag box may require massaging to run a 75, but not the throat.

[Linked Image]

As far as long range trajectory, go back and read what IO said again.

In my 1-8 twist 223AI, I get 3050 with the 75 A-Max and 3600+ with the 50 V-Max. Want an education? Run those numbers in your trajectory program and see which one shoots flatter.

And frangibility of the 75 A-Max? You have to see it to believe it, it will seriously mess stuff up.


My .22's all have 0 freebore. In the .223/.223AI case....... a 50VMax seated just kissing the lands is one boattail length below the neck/shoulder junction. I don't use 75's, but I'd guess in that chamber one of those bullets would be seated pretty well down into the case.

You said to run the trajectory numbers and see which shoots flatter, so I did. In my .223, velocity is 3640 with a 50....velocity in the .223AI is 3825. Trajectory under conditions where I shoot.....6500', 80*F, with 225yd zero......the 75 drops -4.6300, -15.4400, -32.3500.......the 50 from a 223AI drops -3.2300, -11.3400, and -24.8500. At 700yds the 50 has 14" less drop. Wind drift is a different thing, but you said "flatter."

I'm not saying 50's are a good bullet for targets at 700yds, or even good for 500yd targets. And arguing about what bullet to shoot is pretty silly. People should use whatever they want. Doesn't matter to me, shouldn't matter to anyone.



3825fps with a 223AI,is a 50gr PIPE Dream.


Not a pipe dream. Believe it or don't believe it, makes no difference.

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 852
I
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
I
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 852
WoooHooooooooooo...fish on!

Say a little sumptin' about your "Magical" Rifle...........(dare ya')

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 852
I
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
I
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 852
Very curious to see how far Ackman will lie her way out on the limb? She's on Record pace,currently.

I bet she don't say anything about the Imaginary Rifle's particulars,because even she knows better..............

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,195
K
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
K
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,195
IO, I shoot the 50's at 3800 in my rifle, IMI brass, CCI BR4's, N-133 in a 14 twist, 27 inch barrel. 3800 is not the max, but I don't like full length sizing brass. I can squeeze another 50 fps out of the case, but why? Hart stainless barrels are on both my 223 AI's that have zero freebore, .2245 throat, 1 1/2* leade angle, .250 non turn neck, minimum SAAMI dimensions on body.

Likewise, I shoot the 55's at 3650 with N 135, same 27" barrel.

Groups with the 50 and 55's are in the high 2's.

The 23" barrel is 100 fps slower than the 27", don't know if it's added length or just difference in barrels.

Benchmark, H335, H322 will not get the above velocities, nor will a fast twist barrel, it takes a lot of energy to twist a bullet and the result is higher pressures and a slight loss of speed. Only N133 with the 50's and N 135 with the 55's give these velocities, and accuracy is on the level of the 6PPC's that I have.

I think that Brad posted pics of the 75 and 50, it is what we call a long leade in that chamber. I'm guessing that You probably have .140 freebore in that chamber. 0.140 is equal to about 2500 rounds of shooting in leade growth, perhaps more.

These are not intended to be 1000 yard rifles to shoot steel plates with, they are live varmint rifles.

IO, you indeed have the correct set up for dinging steel at 1000 yards, and also to kill a deer/hogs with. 60g Nosler partition in an 8 twist would blow a good hole in a deer.

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 852
I
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
I
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 852

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 852
I
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
I
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 852
My bad...double tapped one...........

[Linked Image]

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,764
T
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
T
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,764
QL says it takes about 82K psi to get a 50 to 3800 via N133 and a 27" tube punched AI...


Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,086
G
gbp Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
G
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,086
8 or 16, stella or zebco
ronco perhaps

Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
234 members (257_X_50, 1minute, 300_savage, 204guy, 10gaugemag, 280shooter, 35 invisible), 2,209 guests, and 965 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,726
Posts18,400,641
Members73,822
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.091s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.9041 MB (Peak: 1.0741 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-29 05:48:09 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS