Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 300 Win Mag vs 7MM Rem Mag...Real World Experiences

I used to be a fan of the 7mm RM, but didn't find enough advantage over the 30-06 and .270 to make it worthwhile.

The big jump in power is to the .300s...I like them all (full length, not the shorties), and find they do put game down with more authority than the 7mm RM. There is a noticable increae in recoil, and practice is important.

Agree also that there is another noticable jump from the .300s to the .338. I lean to the .300s in my hunting for their range ability.

Ummm... OK. I think I confused two threads. CRS.

I have heard it stated that the .300 mags were the biggest of the "trajectory" mags and the .338 was the beginning of the "horsepower" mags.

If I had a 7MM RemMag, I wouldn't rush out to buy a .300 WinMag, or vice versa.

Big biting or stomping things would make me want a .338, at the least. A .375 makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside in that respect.

I started using the 300's back in the late 70's and for about a decade owned 300 Win Mags, H&H's and 300 Weatherby pretty much all at the same time.I was also building, shooting,and hunting with rifles chambered for 7RM.All these caliber rifles went elk hunting with me at one time or another.Friends built similar rifles,and we did a ton of load development for all of them,and hunted them quire a bit out west.

300's are great BG calibers,no question.They are on paper and maybe in actual use somewhat more powerful cartridges than the magnum 7's and this makes sense because of their greater bore diameter and heavier bullets at rougly equal velocities.I have long felt that a 300 mag with heavy bullets belongs in the same class as a 338 cal rifle,from which I could never see a difference on anything I have seen shot with both.But......

In rifles of roughly equal weight(assuming top end loads for both)the 300's will all kick you harder,require a greater degree of muscle tension and concentration to shoot well. This makes sense because if we take a 30 caliber bullet and a 7mm bullet of roughly equal ballistic properties(say a 160 7mm vs a 180-190 30 cal),and try to move them all at 3100 fps, the 7mm will do it with less powder,and a smaller case. This means the 7 mm will always kick less for the same velocity.

A look at the Nosler loading manual tells the story.Compare a 165 30 cal BT to a 140 gr 7mm BT.One has a BC of .475,the other a BC of .485.Both have a sectional density of .248.To start the 30 cal bullet at 3290 in a 300 Win Mag takes 79 gr of RL22;to start the 140 gr 7mm bullet at roughly the same velocity from a 7RM takes 67.5 gr of the same powder.It's easy to see which will kick more.There is no use for one load that the other cannot do equally well,but the 300 load will always "kick" more.This matters to a lot of people.

With the bullets I used(mostly Nosler Partitions and Bitterroots in both calibers)the 300's "seemed" to create more damage.I used to think this meant they "killed" better,and provided this extra margin of effectiveness and "goof proof" factor that many very firmly believe the 300's provide.This sounds swell,but I have found this is not the case at all.300's provide no margin of error and if you hit any BG animal poorly with a 300 magnum you are in as tough a spot as if you had plunked it poorly with a big 7.I know this because I have had it happen to me and have seen it happen far more than once.

I have a close friend who very firmly,and sort of intuitively, believes in the superior "margin of error" and goof factor of the 300's.He is a good shot and has shot some game,but got very unlucky and hit an elk at about 400 yards with a 300 RUM and 180 TBBC just not "exactly right";he floored the elk,as in "down right there";but it thrashed, struggled to its feet in a blur,and got into heavy timber.It was never found.

Conversely,a female friend floored a big bull with a 7 mag and 160 Partition at about 500 yards while I was on the scene.This elk, properly hit,went down, never getting to its feet because it was, in fact, dead.

I hit an elk poorly with a 300 WM at long distance;it ran off. I followed up and killed it. I hit another just right with a 7 mag;it collapsed in a heap.

There are no roughly comparable BG cartridges that buy you "fudge factor"performance IME.You either hit them right, or you don't.The difference in killing power between a mag 7 and a mag 30,assuming equal bullet construction and placement? About "0" IMHO

I used a M70 Winlite in 7mm RM for couple years and always thought that I could have lived quite happily with a 270 Win. I thought the 7 mag was more than I needed for antelope and blacktail. I happily traded it for another Winlite in 338 WM. My reasoning then and still today is that if I need something bigger than a 270 or 7 mag, a 338 or bigger made more sence than a 300 mag - too big for deer and antelope, and too small for elk and moose. We all know this is BS, but that's the way my mind works. lol To this day, I don't care for 30 cal cartridges. However, I could easily be charmed by a 300 H&H. Something romantic and sexy about that venerable cartridge. I could probably live contently owning a pair of custom M70s or Sakos in 300 and 375 H&H mags...at least until the next gun show. lol

I'm wondering if folks are comparing apples to apples.

If you take 300 WM and load it with between 150 and 168gr bullets it becomes a puppy, just like the 7mm Mag.

Most folks load the 300 WM on the heavy side. Between 180gr and 205gr.

I would say a reloader would be at an advantage with the 300 WM. Cheaper to shoot with a greater selection of bullets.

I feel confident that an animal wouldn't know the difference between the two, all else being equal.

Tom

I think this pretty much somes up the purpose behind the 7mm Remington Magnum invent. You have a juiced up 30-06 for extended range with the added benifit of low recoil when compared to the larger magnums. In addition, you can still reach a sectional density greater than .300 for penetration on large game when using a 175grain bullet. But for the really big end of the scale with North American game, you'd probably be better off with at least a .30 caliber minimum. This is probably the reason the 7mm Remington Magnum has stayed as one of the more popular cartridges worldwide all these years.

Best:)

Why do people buy a .300WM and shoot 150s in it?? Why put up with the extra weight and recoil over a 30-06? With a 200yard zero, the difference at 300 yrds is about an inch.

If you look at max point blank range, it's pretty darn close for most rifles. I'd say without re-referencing the table +- 30 yards. It's the energy and the differences seen past 500 yards that makes it worth it.

Anyhow I shoot 180gr bullets in my 300WM.

Tom

You're right there. I own one of each.

The only small advantage I see with the 7mag would be the ability to shoot heavier bullets a little faster, but the TSXs (and similar bullets) make that advantage even smaller to the point of non-existent.

.

All of the above is completely true. I've always been a 165 gr shooter in the 300 Win Mag when I wanted a "light" bullet load myself;and one of the facts contributing to the wonderful vesatility of the 300 Win Mag is the wide range of bullets available for it.

And something the numbers and ballistic tables don't tell us is that the 150 gr may be a more sudden and spectacular killer of deer sized game at longish distances due to the higher velocity and somewhat lighter bullet construction,and its' flatter trajectory past 300 yards can make a hit easier when some Montana whitetail is making tracks across a huge field during the rut,providing "0" time to utilize the rangefinder.....or some hatrack Idaho muley is hightailing up the opposite slope,having discovered that you are, indeed, in the neighborhood.hey, we can't see them all in advance, no matter how careful we are.......

The other little catch is that the 200 gr started at 2900 fps requires it be almost 4" high at 100 yards;close to 5" at 200, to attain a 300 yard zero and drop only 4" less than the 150.;and this assumes a high BC bullet like the 200 gr AB.Versus about 2.9" high at 100 and 3.5 high for the 150 at 3300....the very high mid-range of the 200 can cost you big time at the more moderate ranges normally encountered("Oops! I hit too high!").

Zero them both the same at 100 yards,and I will bet the difference at 500 yards is lots more than 4".....within 500 yards or so, velocity pretty well trumps BC as regards trajectory.(Not speaking as to wind,as some folks do stay off the trigger in a gale).

Which is "best" depends on what and where you are hunting....both can be very useful.And maybe the folks around the water cooler are not as unsophisticated as they look,having dumped a monster muley or two at times

Funny when you read through a thread and basically everyone agrees. I started with a 7RM and have never found a need to change it (despite having a bunch of other calibres - though 30 isn't one of them). I reckon if I had started with a 30 magnum, I wouldn't see the need for a 7RM.

I guess it is what you get comfortable with and learn to shoot. Can't ever see myself without a 7 magnum of some kind. Maybe the ultimate compromise is a 7mm calibre on the 300WM case

Might just have talked myself into another gun...

I read a post once on longrangehunting.com about a 7mm-300wm, ever since then I've wanted one. The numbers this guy was throwing out were insane.

He had pictures of his make shift range and he was shooting 1200 yards and printing 6" groups.

Somewhere down the line I might get into that wildcat.

Tom

At 500 yards the 200 will be going faster than the 150. And the wind deflection comparison would be considerable. Anyone that would take a poke and hope shot at a running deer at 500 yards isn't gonna let some gale force winds stop him.
'Course everyone ought to shoot what they want to. I've never shot any BG at 500 yards, if I can't get closer, they get a free pass. So this is all moot to me.
Does "spectacular" mean there's a big hole blown in them?

I've got a buddy out in the West end of the state. He runs a 7mm-300WM, and is getting the same kind of performance from his. If I remember correctly, he shoots the heavy Bergers.

stillbeeman: I assume you're refering to my post,or at least it appears that way from your comments.If I am mistaken,comments withdrawn,but I doubt that I am.....

Firts of all,I made no refernce to which bullet was going faster at 500 yards,merely pointed out the differences in trajectory between the two loads,and not from reading ballistic tables,but from having shot a few thousand rounds from a 300 Win Mag with similar bullet weights at these various distances,on the range,and in the field.So I am not guessing at any of it.I assume you have done the same.....(?)

Second, nobody said anything about shooting at running deer at 500 yards in a blowing gale......my point(unless you missed, which it appears you did),is that sometimes(frequently)a guy may encounter these situations I mentioned,and if you hunt the westor anywhere with any frequency, it will happen to you.If you have not had it happen, you simply have not hunted it much,at least not with an eye toward killing a big buck.When there is little time to dope things,experience at distances out to 400 yards or so,and a flat trajectory can be of assistance in making a lethal hit when time is of the essence.

I might add that I have given a good many animals a "free pass" when circumstances dictated

I had it happen 3-4 years ago,and by the time the pair of bucks(one of them very large) stopped at the edge of a cedar thicket, they were 550 yards from me. I lazed, watched them,and passed the shot.So,to infer from my statements that any running deer at any distance is fodder for an irresponsible shot,is flawed thinking.Deer DO stop,and go,and move through screening cover,at all distances.In the process, they may present an opportunity.(See following comments about using your "judgement")

It is always optional to pass a shot,and this is where honest evaluation of your skill level and judgement,reading conditions at the instant,and choosing to pass or shoot comes into play.They call this "judgement"....just because you have the tool to kill at 500 yards does not mean you bring it into play every time.Using your brain for something other than to take up space in your your head,is always an option.

Next, the reference to spectacular kills does not necessarily mean a "big hole was blown in them";it was a reference to bullet performance and the fact that 200 grain 30 caliber hunting bullets made to handle 300 mag velocities are pretty tough,and at distance,expansion on a deer may not result in as quick a kill as it may with the 150.If you had used both types of bullets on game very much at all,you would know this.....it is a simple matter of suiting bullet construction to the game.Any bullet designed to kill big game "blows holes " in animals;that is what they are designed to do.

When I shoot an animal, I fully intend to do him considerable harm;am I to assume,that you prefer to kill them "gently" somehow?

It is pretty apparent to me that you have never killed BG at 500 yards.OTOH I have,but infrequently,and can count the times on maybe one hand;sometimes you do not get a "pass"and my one(successful)shot at that distance at a deer was at a large buck wounded by a companion.

There was no time to laze anything(we did not have them anyway),and this was done to prevent a wounded animal from escaping. I "knew" that he was about 500 yards away,"knew" the 7 mag and 140 gr load dropped 2 feet at that distance.There was a howling wind,but it quartered sharply on to me,and the buck was moving up a lee slope,so I did not allow for it.My only shot went were it was intended to go and the buck was quickly recovered.

It is amusing to me that a common tactic on here is to take the path of "...if I can't do it,or have not done it,it can't be done....and it is immoral to do it...",so take the path of seeking the moral high ground,and take swipes at others by creating the worst case scenario,and assume the worst in someone else, to try to prove a point.Usually, this happnes after they have lost an argument...I find this a pretty common tactic among those who know a lot less than they like to think they do.

I knew when I made the post that someone(not surprised it was you)would take a swipe with some half-assed comment,and with all the usual disclaimers from their pulpit.

.............Technically in terms of those things you mention, not much in the real world! Either round with the right bullet, can handle any N/A big game.

The 300 Win (owned and hunted with one for 30+ years), will have an advantage vs the 7 Rem Mag in bullet weight versatility (from 110 to 220 gr). However, certain 7mm bullets have slightly higher BCs than the best BCd 30s, meaning they will have a slight advantage in trajectory depending on MV.

IME, recoil is a little less with the 7mm Rem Mag given the same rifle weight. But imo, if one can handle a 7 Rem Mag comfortably, then one "should" in most cases, be able to handle a 300 Win.

The differences will boil down to individual caliber preferences. Many prefer the 7mm, while many prefer the 30 cal.

I have been in the 300 WM camp my whole hunting career and it boiled down to rifle feel. I went to a gun shop, they had a Ruger M77 MkII stainless with the boat paddle stock in 300WM and a Weatherby in 7RM I handled both and the Ruger just fit me alot better and to this day I still hunt with the 300 and am firmly in the 300 WM camp.

I'll tackle the spectacular by sharing two stories.

1) I shot a fork horn the second year I hunted with my 300WM. It was broad side and the bullet entered in the money spot. the deer ran off but went maybe 25 yards. When I gutted the deer the entire rib cage on the entry side was black and blue. Since then I've shot deer further back with my 300 preserving the meat.

2) On the last day of the season about three years ago I was hunting a shack on the top of a large hill looking down into a valley. I was expecting to see deer at the bottom of the hill. However a very large doe presenter her self 50-60 yards away directly in front of me. I was set up to shoot no less than 200 yards and I was using a very soft bullet. I knew things weren't going to be pretty. I shot that deer again right in the money spot behind the front shoulder. She too ran off. Ended up at the bottom of the hill. There was no exit wound but I found a large fragment in the gut pile. When I butchered her turns out a the bullet had split into three pieces. One piece traveled through the shoulder all the way along her neck parallel to the spine and stopped right at the base of the skull. Another piece when through the guts and ended up in the rear hind muscle. Then the last piece was recovered on the gut job. It took care of the vitals.

In scenario two had I been using a bonded bullet it would have been a clean pass through.

So yes I'd say a 300WM kills spectacularly.

Tom