Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Africa plains game using Berger VLD's?

Actually, it did not die fast at all. The deer was hit nearly center of the lungs and took a good 30 minutes to die. Granted, he only went about 15 yards all together. I wouldn't want to chance it with e kudu or wildebeeste or oryx. Shoot ttsx and call it a day!

Yep, right answer.

Shooting a Pronghorn in the open is one thing, shooting a 600 pound Kudu, or a 1900 pound Eland is quite another thing. Just because you don't say you want an Eland doesn't mean you won't decide you'd like one once you get over there and see them in person.

How about this story, you're out hunting and it's almost dark and a monster Kudu comes out that the PH is going crazy over since he's not seen one that big in a while, so you shoot him. Except you didn't see the little branch that your bullet hit right in front of him, the trackers find that the next morning when they picked up the blood trail because there was no animal laying on the ground as the light faded. No big deal, it only takes a day and a half to track him down, and day fees are $300 a day. Now you've got what a $1500 animal and two day fees worth of tracking in the animal. You count yourself damn lucky the trackers are as good as they are or you'd be paying $1500 and have nothing to show for it if they hadn't have found it.

Personally I'd rather have a bullet that can go through a branch or four feet of animal if it has to cause I'd rather spend day fees having fun hunting than I would feeling sick to my stomach follow a PH and his trackers all day while they're talking in Afrikaans and you don't know wtf they're saying. It's probably something to the effect of " If this freaking American had used a bullet that would go through that little branch we wouldn't be sweating our asses off chasing this bugger through the brush all day" Naaa, I bet it wouldn't be something that nice.

It cracks me up how people get so emotional about scopes and bullets.

If your .308 is the rifle you're most comfortable with then use it, but please do yourself a favor and get the best proven bullet you can in your rifle, and then practice every minute you can dry firing off your shooting sticks. I promise you'll thank yourself that you did that.

Remember Sig888, the vitals for African Plains game are not aft of the shoulder; they are in line with the shoulder. That means that you aim, generally speaking, for the shoulder. I wouldn't dream of using a Berger VLD on a Gemsbok or a Kudu -- I don't care how accurate they are. Remember, you'll pay that trophy fee regardless of whether or not you recover the animal.

You don't need a HUGE caliber to hunt Plains Game, but the .308 is at the lower end of what I personally would take to Africa. It's not that I don't think a .308 will do the job; it will. It's just that the huge financial risk associated with lost game make it ESSENTIAL that you take a well-constructed, controlled-expansion bullet such as the TSX, Partition, GMX, Northfork, etc.

One more suggestion: Take your advice from those in this forum who have actually been to Africa and hunted African game. Pictures of antelope that died a horrific death at the hands of a VLD tell you NOTHING about its suitability for PG. I took a .375 H&H with the 270 TSX, and I'd take it again. Necessary? No, but man did it shoot straight and work very, very well.

Uhhh...for big Plains Game at .308 energy levels, they are most definitely MARGINAL. Sorry, I don't care how well they kill deer. The Berger VLD is a great bullet, but it's out of its league for this application.

My personal belief is that a good, premium quality, hunting designed bullet is nothing short of a dirt-cheap insurance policy for a very expensive hunt. You owe it to yourself to go with the best, provided that the bullet will shoot well out of your rifle and you feel confident using it.

In my case, a 140gr. Nosler AccuBond out of a 7mm-08 was plenty of gun to take kudu, gemsbok, impala, warthog, springbok, steenbok, caracal and jackal. Not one ran more than 100 yards and the bullet held up as advertised.

I'm heading back to Africa this coming Spring and the philosophy remains the same. This time around, I'll be working up loads for a couple of bullets I have seen post-safari evidence from via another Africa veteran, those being the Barnes TSX and TTSX. My lone complaint with the AccuBond was that in the 140gr. weight, I couldn't achieve full penetration through a broadside kudu. Make no mistake, the bullets killed all of the game dead as dead can be. That said, I want to see if a higher retained weight will be the difference maker in secure an exit wound and hopefully more consistent blood trails, especially from the 7mm-08.

.................Richardca99.............Have you ever tried using the heavier 190 and 210 gr 30 cal VLD on larger African plains game such as kudu or eland?

Berger`s headquarters are located here in So Cal. I have conferred with them in person and by phone on a few occassions.

It seems that there is a general consensus amongst those VLD detractors who haven`t used them on large African game or otherwise, that the hunting VLDs may not be capable of fully penetrating thick bone as would be needed for a shot into the shoulder of say a big eland or kudu.

While in a discussion about large African game recently with Berger, Berger does reco a minimum of 2000-2100 fps impact velocity for just such larger African animals for thick bone penetration, then continuing on into the vitals (which are located in the center of the animal, girth wise) with typical VLD destruction. They reco an 1800 fps minimum impact speed for large elk bone penetration.

With that said, they do caution that using the lighter VLDs at greater speeds, would not be the best case scenario for largest African plains game. The testimonies by hunters submitted to Berger who have used the VLDs in Africa on large plains game seem quite impressive from what I`ve read, particularly when using the 30 cal 190s and the 210s.

Now, I`ve never been to Africa, and obviously have never used the VLDs on African game. So I`m no expert in that dept. My successful VLD experience is primarily here on hogs and on one large bull elk which I know, isn`t exactly large African plains game.

However, I will keep an open mind, continually reviewing the testimonies and tips (available at Berger) from those who have used the VLDs in Africa.

Bigsqueeze, I have not taken the VLD to Africa, as I don't think it's the right bullet in any weight. I'm quite sure that PG have been killed with the VLD. I just won't take the chance given the money that's involved in trophy fees. My primary objection is a financial one, and I know that a controlled-expansion bullet has been proven effective time and time again.

I'm certainly not a Berger detractor. Far from it. They make a fantastic product and seem to have great quality control. I've got four boxes of 30 cal and 7mm Hunting VLD on the reloading bench at the moment, and they're destined for two of my deer rifles. Do I think that the VLD is over-hyped a bit? Yes, I do. It turns out that if you take a target bullet with a thin jacket and give it a very sharp tip, the bullet will make it past the hide and into the vitals before it explodes like a grenade. Seems to me that Nosler proved this with the original Ballistic Tip years back. If placed in the vitals, this will almost always result in an instant and dramatic kill. For deer and antelope, I'm a believer. I'm sold.

What concerns me is what will happen if that bullet is NOT precisely placed, or if quartering-away shots through tough bone and hide are required. I'd rather hedge my bet in favor of a bullet that I trust is going to hold together regardless of placement.

I'd have to see a lot of elk shot in the shoulder with a VLD before I'd be convinced that it's the right tool for the job (out of my gun). I never said that it wouldn't do the job. I can pound nails with a wrench, but a hammer is better suited for that particular task.

...........Thanks for the feedback. I`m aware of the particular concerns regarding quartering to and away shots, how lack of penetration with angled shots have to be considered.

On my last elk hunt, I had pretty much a broadside shot from 328 yards using a 190 gr "hunting" VLD. That bullet not only penetrated the thickest part of the bull`s right shoulder bone, but continued on to do enormous internal damage. Later, many bullet fragments were found just below the hide on the opposite side. There was no exit hole. For this elk load, the muzzle velocity from my 300 WSM Ruger compact with the help of some RL17, averaged 2890 fps here at the lower altitude (below 3,000 ft at the ranges I use) here in So Cal.

In this case anyway, I`m not so sure that a VLDs penetration should only be limited to only the 15-16 or so inches as is purported. With my elk anyway, that was certainly not the case, as the penetration and damage went further. Had I used a faster 168 or a 175 VLD, I don`t think the penetration or damage would have been quite as extensive.

On quartering shots, to or away, say at no more than about 30 degrees or so, a top view of a typical large bull elk reveals, that such quartering shots are very do-able and capable of hitting the vitals. The distances to the vitals, are all not that much more than would be a broadside shot to the vitals. The bullet angle is the key on a quartering shot.

Although this was my first time using a VLD on elk, by my description, you can understand my initial impression of the VLD on elk. In this case, spectacular to say the least. The bull dropped within 4 yards of impact.

In fact, the 7mm VLDs which you currently have on your bench, get much more publicity regarding extended longer ranged hunting than do the 30 cals. One example, such as a 180 gr 7mm VLD, taking down a bull elk at just over 900 yards with a 7mm Remy Mag.

I have to think that if they work well at extended ranges, they`ll work all that much better at the shorter ranges too. Looking at the #s alone, the downrange energy and velocity retained by my 190 VLD at 328 yards, well exceeds a 7mm 180 VLD at 900+ yards. That probably explains that extra penetration on my elk.

Happy hunting!

slg888, I know where you are hunting, been there. No comment about the Bergers. Longest shot you are looking at is maybe 150 yds.[mine weren't that long]. Gonna show my grey hairdness, load a 180 gr., nosler partition, sighted in at 100 yds., dead on, at a middle of the road velocity, and go forth and slay critters! and enjoy yourself.......


maddog

bigsqueeze,

Even a big bull elk is no more than 20" through the thickest part of the shoulders, so no, your VLD didn't penetrate more than 16".

I have seen a MUCH tougher .30 caliber, 180-grain bullet than a VLD go completely to pieces on the shoulder of a big eland. This was at 300 yards, from a .300 Winchester Magnum, so excessive velocity wasn't the problem. Luckily, the hunter was able to put another shot behind the shoulder, which killed the bull. Only fragments of the first bullet were found. It did break the shoulder, but didn't get through the ribs.

I like VLD's a lot, and hunt with them every year. But they are NOT an all-around bullet for hunting all sizes of big game, in various conditions.

I suppose anything's possible but what would be the point of using Bergers? Stick with premium bullets. All the plains game I shot in the front half of the chest ended up one shot kills. I used Nosler Partitions.

Thanks for your knowledge everyone. Due to the almost unanimous decision here on the African fire, I'll purchase some 168gr TTSX bullets for the trip and also carry a few 168gr VLD. If possible shoot the Blesbuck, Wart & Impala with VLD and Kudu & Gemsbuck with TTSX. Try to build some self confidence using the VLD doing this. If it all works out that way.

Mule Deer has lot's of experience using the VLD's along with many other bullets so Im gonna go with his field experience to protect my wallet (no lost game). I need to slowly work myself into these accurate flying bullets, but Africa is not the place for personal testing VLD's on large game right now I suppose.

slg888,

Just out of curiosity, how much hunting have you done?

Thanks for asking Mule Deer,

25yrs of it. From black bears, mule deer, antelope and a chit load of whitetail all over North America. Never lost a deer with any bullet Ive used. VLD's are all new to me though.

This will be the 1st time to Africa and wanting to keep my rifle kill percentage at 100% if you know what I mean. Ive used 120gr ttsx successfully in the last 2 yrs in Alberta & SK, but trying new products that shoot well kinda has my attention to "see how it performs on game" if that makes any sense.

I'd just stick with the TTSX. For the hunt you have planned, you'll be doing yourself a disservice by bringing two different loads, IMO. Keep things simple. The best safaris are the ones where you have no idea as to what's around the next turn and if you're fumbling around trying to switch loads, chances are good you'll miss an opportunity. Is the .308 Win. your only option for this safari?

I agree that makes more sense, but after speaking with Afterum and also hunting with the same outfitter, he knew what was on the "kill" list just about everyday. Property for Warthogs, property for Impala, ect.

Like I say, if it works out. TTSX definitely 1st choice on Gemsbuck & Kudu hunts. Kinda like bringing 2 different rifles for game as lot of hunters do, except me bringing two different bullets weighing the same.

I'll be very interested in hearing the report of your hunt!

........They can grow to be a little wider than 20" at the shoulders. Laying down on their side they are not as thick as when standing. We found fragments just below the hide on the opposite side with some a little into the hide. So I`ll say that a good 20" of penetration was done.

But either way you cut it, agree with the VLD bullet for elk or disagree with it, I got me one big and beautiful dead bull elk.

Congratulations!

I also have a huge New Zealand red stag, killed with a Berger VLD. He was bedded across a canyon and never got up, just tipped his head back and died right there.

But I still wouldn't choose VLD's for typical thornbush hunting in Africa.