You are an idiot. Did you not read what I wrote? You are so stuck on "First day first thing, 7am" BS. I tried to explain a little but obviously you are more worried about proving your lame point than actually having a discussion. Your lame assumptions are so off base it is laughable. You have this generalization of a "slob" hunter and throw this kid and his father into that group because of your lack of commonsense and understanding. Blinded by your lack of understanding and your pride you can't see teh bigger picture outside of your little hunting area. So keep lumping your fellow hunters in groups and miss out on the wonderful diversity and fun that hunting brings to many in PA. Fighting amongst ourselves over legal hunting is what the anti's want.
The deer situation is not bad in our part of PA. We live on farms and our farms RELY ON THE CROP INCOME. I saw almost 50 deer the first day. Not sure what your problem is with the amount of deer, maybe you move too much or smell bad. We have too many and need to whack a bunch of does in our area.
The kid shot the deer tuesday evening, as I explained already. After passing up small bucks and does for 2 days. It is their property and if they want to shoot a doe they have the right to do so whenever they want. Lord knows they have too many does on the property.
If someone walks into teh woods and shoots one a 7am, good for them. What is "slob" about that? hunting within the confines of the laws is fine. Cry and moan about other people obeying laws and having a good time. Pretty lame.
I have run into guys of his ilk many times. because he thinks a certain way, and anyone who doesn't agree with him are stupid and morons etc. then if he doesn't get his deer the way he feels like it he starts pissing and moaning how there aren't any deer and the wildlife managers are stupid and don't know anything and he perceives this or that and makes assumptions and then whines like a little girl and gets his panties in a bunch. in his mind he is king, everyone else is nothing. self centered asswhole. here's a thought genius, if the majority thinks you're an idiot, and that you're wrong, think about it. its possible that they are right and you are wrong, rather than the other way around.
few things are worse than an idiot that shoots his mouth off, and then jumps on guys for disagreeing with him, rather than considering their point first and eating a little humble pie if need be
Beware of any old man in a profession where one usually dies young.
With all the attacks on this forum - I am going to post what I sent in private conversation to one of the morons that sent me a offline message -
You don't understand. There are two types of people In Pennsylvania right now. The people that complains that there is no deer and the slob hunters that goes out and shoots deer on the first day of rifle season at 7 AM.
There is two weeks of rifle season and you can shoot does any day of the week in some zones. In my zone you cannot shoot a doe until this Saturday. At the same time my zone - 2D is the largest producer of deer in the entire state - yet you must have 4 points to one antler unless you are a disabled or youth hunter.
No I do not owe this kid a apology - because it was his dad's friend who posted what a great hunter he is - and how proud of him he was that his kid schwacked a doe at first light.
You are not teaching a kid how to be a hunter when you are shooting the first deer that comes down the deer trail. All you are doing is showing him how to be a shootist.
The only way you learn how to be a hunter is to pay your dues and spend time in the woods and when your only goal is to fill your tags as quickly as possible and leave - in my opinion - you are not a hunter.
Read my post - more then once before you jump down my back. Read this post - more then once before you jump down my back.
I am telling you - the deer situation is bad in Pennsylvania. It isn't that there isn't NO DEER, it's that there is a very limited amount of deer in the woods to hunt.
There are people who might only have saw one or two deer all this week, and there are people who has not seen any deer at all.
Maybe they are not good hunters - I don't know. But my dad taught me half of what I know today and my dad hunted all day Monday and never saw a deer - which is the first time that has ever happened in his entire hunting career and he is 75 yrs old.
My one brother - I let sit in my tree stand and he came home and said he saw 11 bucks and 9 does.
My other brother sat in my favorite tree stand yesterday and shot a 7 point buck about noon when my other brother wanted to walk back to the truck to eat lunch.
Why he would want to walk back to the truck when he had a roof over his head, walls around him, a Kerosun heater to keep him warm - is beyond me.
Most hunters - and I use that term gently, hunts by their watch and not by their common sense. They look at their watch and they set dead lines, if nothing comes along by 8:30 I am going to do this, if nothing comes along by 9 AM I am going to do that.
Deer move because hunters move. The very first deer that kid saw was probably because they were late getting into the woods and they walked right up on a deer and his dad told him to shoot it because he wanted to fill the tags and only had a limited amount of time to do so and he wanted his kid to be successful.
I hunted deer until I was 20 years old before I shot my first doe.
One reason was because you were only allowed to shoot one deer per a year and I shot a buck most years, other years I did not get a doe license and other years beyond that - I did not yet acquire the necessary skills to be a proficient hunter to be able to walk into the woods by myself and shoot a doe in the two days that the state gave you for doe season.
They are making it too easy for people to walk into the woods and just shoot everything in sight.
The Game Commission already knows that a bunch of crap is going on and the hunters are displeased with their decision to let people shoot doe's on the first day and they have toughened up the laws against poaching and illegal kills.
The Game Commission realizes that they are selling too many tags and there is too many deer being harvested and that some areas do not even have a deer anymore in the woods to hunt.
If you want deer - you have to stop shooting the doe's. There is nothing wrong with shooting a doe, but please - don't come on here one year bragging that you shot one on opening morning at 7 AM and come on here 5 years from now and blame the PGC that there is no more deer in Pennsylvania.
The Game Commission isn't shooting them - you are!
Teach your kids to be ethical hunters - teach them to let a doe walk on the first day and be more selective on which deer you do shoot and you can create a situation where it is more enjoyable for everyone. That was the point that I was trying to make and the point that I suppose the father friend of the boy that shot the doe understood when he read my post.
There is no law that says that you can't shoot a doe at 7 AM on the first day, but why do it? Are you really teaching your kids how to be a hunter when you shoot the first legal deer that walks down the trail?
You only learn how to be a hunter by going hunting multiple times and making mistakes - that is why it is called hunting and not getting.
With all the attacks on this forum - I am going to post what I sent in private conversation to one of the morons that sent me a offline message -
You don't understand. There are two types of people In Pennsylvania right now. The people that complains that there is no deer and the slob hunters that goes out and shoots deer on the first day of rifle season at 7 AM.
There is two weeks of rifle season and you can shoot does any day of the week in some zones. In my zone you cannot shoot a doe until this Saturday. At the same time my zone - 2D is the largest producer of deer in the entire state - yet you must have 4 points to one antler unless you are a disabled or youth hunter.
No I do not owe this kid a apology - because it was his dad's friend who posted what a great hunter he is - and how proud of him he was that his kid schwacked a doe at first light.
You are not teaching a kid how to be a hunter when you are shooting the first deer that comes down the deer trail. All you are doing is showing him how to be a shootist.
The only way you learn how to be a hunter is to pay your dues and spend time in the woods and when your only goal is to fill your tags as quickly as possible and leave - in my opinion - you are not a hunter.
Read my post - more then once before you jump down my back. Read this post - more then once before you jump down my back.
I am telling you - the deer situation is bad in Pennsylvania. It isn't that there isn't NO DEER, it's that there is a very limited amount of deer in the woods to hunt.
There are people who might only have saw one or two deer all this week, and there are people who has not seen any deer at all.
Maybe they are not good hunters - I don't know. But my dad taught me half of what I know today and my dad hunted all day Monday and never saw a deer - which is the first time that has ever happened in his entire hunting career and he is 75 yrs old.
My one brother - I let sit in my tree stand and he came home and said he saw 11 bucks and 9 does.
My other brother sat in my favorite tree stand yesterday and shot a 7 point buck about noon when my other brother wanted to walk back to the truck to eat lunch.
Why he would want to walk back to the truck when he had a roof over his head, walls around him, a Kerosun heater to keep him warm - is beyond me.
Most hunters - and I use that term gently, hunts by their watch and not by their common sense. They look at their watch and they set dead lines, if nothing comes along by 8:30 I am going to do this, if nothing comes along by 9 AM I am going to do that.
Deer move because hunters move. The very first deer that kid saw was probably because they were late getting into the woods and they walked right up on a deer and his dad told him to shoot it because he wanted to fill the tags and only had a limited amount of time to do so and he wanted his kid to be successful.
I hunted deer until I was 20 years old before I shot my first doe.
One reason was because you were only allowed to shoot one deer per a year and I shot a buck most years, other years I did not get a doe license and other years beyond that - I did not yet acquire the necessary skills to be a proficient hunter to be able to walk into the woods by myself and shoot a doe in the two days that the state gave you for doe season.
They are making it too easy for people to walk into the woods and just shoot everything in sight.
The Game Commission already knows that a bunch of crap is going on and the hunters are displeased with their decision to let people shoot doe's on the first day and they have toughened up the laws against poaching and illegal kills.
The Game Commission realizes that they are selling too many tags and there is too many deer being harvested and that some areas do not even have a deer anymore in the woods to hunt.
If you want deer - you have to stop shooting the doe's. There is nothing wrong with shooting a doe, but please - don't come on here one year bragging that you shot one on opening morning at 7 AM and come on here 5 years from now and blame the PGC that there is no more deer in Pennsylvania.
The Game Commission isn't shooting them - you are!
Teach your kids to be ethical hunters - teach them to let a doe walk on the first day and be more selective on which deer you do shoot and you can create a situation where it is more enjoyable for everyone. That was the point that I was trying to make and the point that I suppose the father friend of the boy that shot the doe understood when he read my post.
There is no law that says that you can't shoot a doe at 7 AM on the first day, but why do it? Are you really teaching your kids how to be a hunter when you shoot the first legal deer that walks down the trail?
You only learn how to be a hunter by going hunting multiple times and making mistakes - that is why it is called hunting and not getting.
Wow ... you've obviously got issues that even the best professionals and strongest medications couldn't help ...
With all the attacks on this forum - I am going to post what I sent in private conversation to one of the morons that sent me a offline message -
You don't understand. There are two types of people In Pennsylvania right now. The people that complains that there is no deer and the slob hunters that goes out and shoots deer on the first day of rifle season at 7 AM.
There is two weeks of rifle season and you can shoot does any day of the week in some zones. In my zone you cannot shoot a doe until this Saturday. At the same time my zone - 2D is the largest producer of deer in the entire state - yet you must have 4 points to one antler unless you are a disabled or youth hunter.
No I do not owe this kid a apology - because it was his dad's friend who posted what a great hunter he is - and how proud of him he was that his kid schwacked a doe at first light.
You are not teaching a kid how to be a hunter when you are shooting the first deer that comes down the deer trail. All you are doing is showing him how to be a shootist.
The only way you learn how to be a hunter is to pay your dues and spend time in the woods and when your only goal is to fill your tags as quickly as possible and leave - in my opinion - you are not a hunter.
Read my post - more then once before you jump down my back. Read this post - more then once before you jump down my back.
I am telling you - the deer situation is bad in Pennsylvania. It isn't that there isn't NO DEER, it's that there is a very limited amount of deer in the woods to hunt.
There are people who might only have saw one or two deer all this week, and there are people who has not seen any deer at all.
Maybe they are not good hunters - I don't know. But my dad taught me half of what I know today and my dad hunted all day Monday and never saw a deer - which is the first time that has ever happened in his entire hunting career and he is 75 yrs old.
My one brother - I let sit in my tree stand and he came home and said he saw 11 bucks and 9 does.
My other brother sat in my favorite tree stand yesterday and shot a 7 point buck about noon when my other brother wanted to walk back to the truck to eat lunch.
Why he would want to walk back to the truck when he had a roof over his head, walls around him, a Kerosun heater to keep him warm - is beyond me.
Most hunters - and I use that term gently, hunts by their watch and not by their common sense. They look at their watch and they set dead lines, if nothing comes along by 8:30 I am going to do this, if nothing comes along by 9 AM I am going to do that.
Deer move because hunters move. The very first deer that kid saw was probably because they were late getting into the woods and they walked right up on a deer and his dad told him to shoot it because he wanted to fill the tags and only had a limited amount of time to do so and he wanted his kid to be successful.
I hunted deer until I was 20 years old before I shot my first doe.
One reason was because you were only allowed to shoot one deer per a year and I shot a buck most years, other years I did not get a doe license and other years beyond that - I did not yet acquire the necessary skills to be a proficient hunter to be able to walk into the woods by myself and shoot a doe in the two days that the state gave you for doe season.
They are making it too easy for people to walk into the woods and just shoot everything in sight.
The Game Commission already knows that a bunch of crap is going on and the hunters are displeased with their decision to let people shoot doe's on the first day and they have toughened up the laws against poaching and illegal kills.
The Game Commission realizes that they are selling too many tags and there is too many deer being harvested and that some areas do not even have a deer anymore in the woods to hunt.
If you want deer - you have to stop shooting the doe's. There is nothing wrong with shooting a doe, but please - don't come on here one year bragging that you shot one on opening morning at 7 AM and come on here 5 years from now and blame the PGC that there is no more deer in Pennsylvania.
The Game Commission isn't shooting them - you are!
Teach your kids to be ethical hunters - teach them to let a doe walk on the first day and be more selective on which deer you do shoot and you can create a situation where it is more enjoyable for everyone. That was the point that I was trying to make and the point that I suppose the father friend of the boy that shot the doe understood when he read my post.
There is no law that says that you can't shoot a doe at 7 AM on the first day, but why do it? Are you really teaching your kids how to be a hunter when you shoot the first legal deer that walks down the trail?
You only learn how to be a hunter by going hunting multiple times and making mistakes - that is why it is called hunting and not getting.
Conclusive evidence that Duquesne Dumphuck's parents were likely brother and sister.
Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.
Courage is Fear that has said its Prayers
�If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.� Ronald Reagan.
I usually stay away from name calling on these forums, but sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade.
Duquensebeer, you are a presumptuous, pompous, sorry, judgmental, lame-assed sorry excuse for a human being.
What about the kid's actions was/were unethical? You don't know, you were not there. How could you make that assumption - unless you are a horrid, miserable piece of crap?
You assume that the kid had days or all week to hunt. How would you know that?
You piss and moan about people hunting all day and not seeing anything, yet you'd have a young hunter who is anxious for his first kill (which is not a bad thing) pass up an opportunity. An opportunity which; in your own words, may not come again that day/trip/season.
The young man had an opportunity to kill a deer. He took it. He has the rest of his life (speaking of which, why don't you get one?) to wait out the big one. If that is how he chooses to hunt. If he does not choose that hunting style that does not make him unethical or a poor hunter.
I am astounded that a responsible intelligent adult would trash a kid for killing his first deer.
Have a good day man. In honor of personal freedom and the open squirrel season, I think I'll go put a hole through dinner's head.
With all the attacks on this forum - I am going to post what I sent in private conversation to one of the morons that sent me a offline message -
You don't understand. There are two types of people In Pennsylvania right now. The people that complains that there is no deer and the slob hunters that goes out and shoots deer on the first day of rifle season at 7 AM.
There is two weeks of rifle season and you can shoot does any day of the week in some zones. In my zone you cannot shoot a doe until this Saturday. At the same time my zone - 2D is the largest producer of deer in the entire state - yet you must have 4 points to one antler unless you are a disabled or youth hunter.
No I do not owe this kid a apology - because it was his dad's friend who posted what a great hunter he is - and how proud of him he was that his kid schwacked a doe at first light.
You are not teaching a kid how to be a hunter when you are shooting the first deer that comes down the deer trail. All you are doing is showing him how to be a shootist.
The only way you learn how to be a hunter is to pay your dues and spend time in the woods and when your only goal is to fill your tags as quickly as possible and leave - in my opinion - you are not a hunter.
Read my post - more then once before you jump down my back. Read this post - more then once before you jump down my back.
I am telling you - the deer situation is bad in Pennsylvania. It isn't that there isn't NO DEER, it's that there is a very limited amount of deer in the woods to hunt.
There are people who might only have saw one or two deer all this week, and there are people who has not seen any deer at all.
Maybe they are not good hunters - I don't know. But my dad taught me half of what I know today and my dad hunted all day Monday and never saw a deer - which is the first time that has ever happened in his entire hunting career and he is 75 yrs old.
My one brother - I let sit in my tree stand and he came home and said he saw 11 bucks and 9 does.
My other brother sat in my favorite tree stand yesterday and shot a 7 point buck about noon when my other brother wanted to walk back to the truck to eat lunch.
Why he would want to walk back to the truck when he had a roof over his head, walls around him, a Kerosun heater to keep him warm - is beyond me.
Most hunters - and I use that term gently, hunts by their watch and not by their common sense. They look at their watch and they set dead lines, if nothing comes along by 8:30 I am going to do this, if nothing comes along by 9 AM I am going to do that.
Deer move because hunters move. The very first deer that kid saw was probably because they were late getting into the woods and they walked right up on a deer and his dad told him to shoot it because he wanted to fill the tags and only had a limited amount of time to do so and he wanted his kid to be successful.
I hunted deer until I was 20 years old before I shot my first doe.
One reason was because you were only allowed to shoot one deer per a year and I shot a buck most years, other years I did not get a doe license and other years beyond that - I did not yet acquire the necessary skills to be a proficient hunter to be able to walk into the woods by myself and shoot a doe in the two days that the state gave you for doe season.
They are making it too easy for people to walk into the woods and just shoot everything in sight.
The Game Commission already knows that a bunch of crap is going on and the hunters are displeased with their decision to let people shoot doe's on the first day and they have toughened up the laws against poaching and illegal kills.
The Game Commission realizes that they are selling too many tags and there is too many deer being harvested and that some areas do not even have a deer anymore in the woods to hunt.
If you want deer - you have to stop shooting the doe's. There is nothing wrong with shooting a doe, but please - don't come on here one year bragging that you shot one on opening morning at 7 AM and come on here 5 years from now and blame the PGC that there is no more deer in Pennsylvania.
The Game Commission isn't shooting them - you are!
Teach your kids to be ethical hunters - teach them to let a doe walk on the first day and be more selective on which deer you do shoot and you can create a situation where it is more enjoyable for everyone. That was the point that I was trying to make and the point that I suppose the father friend of the boy that shot the doe understood when he read my post.
There is no law that says that you can't shoot a doe at 7 AM on the first day, but why do it? Are you really teaching your kids how to be a hunter when you shoot the first legal deer that walks down the trail?
You only learn how to be a hunter by going hunting multiple times and making mistakes - that is why it is called hunting and not getting.
Man you are crazy. Wanna ruin a kid on hunting quicker than anything is make him sit in the stand for days and not allow him to shoot anything. My boy is 4 and I promise you the first deer that steps out next year that is legal to shoot he'll be pulling the trigger on. I'm a selective hunter but I'm not going to punish my kid becuase of it. Apparently you don't have kids or either they really don't like you. The happiest/proudest moment of my hunting life will be when my son shoots his first deer, no matter what size it is. I promise you the kid didn't care if it was a buck or a doe. It's his first deer. If you do have kids do what you think is best for them, not for you.
Why is shooting a doe so bad>>> 1 buck can take care of several does...whack him and his 2 inch rack just to say you got a buck is ridiculous. This guy is full of ego and self centeredness. This is why people eat knuckle sandwhiches...I am not a fighter, but can you imagine the level of frustration if you actually sat down with this bird and tried to discuss this????? I would snap!
All I can leave you with Duquesnebeer is this: It must be real cute around your house!
I usually stay away from name calling on these forums, but sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade.
Duquensebeer, you are a presumptuous, pompous, sorry, judgmental, lame-assed sorry excuse for a human being.
What about the kid's actions was/were unethical? You don't know, you were not there. How could you make that assumption - unless you are a horrid, miserable piece of crap?
You assume that the kid had days or all week to hunt. How would you know that?
You piss and moan about people hunting all day and not seeing anything, yet you'd have a young hunter who is anxious for his first kill (which is not a bad thing) pass up an opportunity. An opportunity which; in your own words, may not come again that day/trip/season.
The young man had an opportunity to kill a deer. He took it. He has the rest of his life (speaking of which, why don't you get one?) to wait out the big one. If that is how he chooses to hunt. If he does not choose that hunting style that does not make him unethical or a poor hunter.
I am astounded that a responsible intelligent adult would trash a kid for killing his first deer.
I agree completely!
I remember my first deer. It wasn't big, but I was happy as heck to get it and can still take you to the exact spot where I shot it and where I was sitting when I shot it. Oh ya, it was also the first legal deer that I saw on opening day! If someone wants to shoot the first legal deer they see, go for it!
With all the attacks on this forum - I am going to post what I sent in private conversation to one of the morons that sent me a offline message -
You don't understand. There are two types of people In Pennsylvania right now. The people that complains that there is no deer and the slob hunters that goes out and shoots deer on the first day of rifle season at 7 AM.
There is two weeks of rifle season and you can shoot does any day of the week in some zones. In my zone you cannot shoot a doe until this Saturday. At the same time my zone - 2D is the largest producer of deer in the entire state - yet you must have 4 points to one antler unless you are a disabled or youth hunter.
No I do not owe this kid a apology - because it was his dad's friend who posted what a great hunter he is - and how proud of him he was that his kid schwacked a doe at first light.
You are not teaching a kid how to be a hunter when you are shooting the first deer that comes down the deer trail. All you are doing is showing him how to be a shootist.
The only way you learn how to be a hunter is to pay your dues and spend time in the woods and when your only goal is to fill your tags as quickly as possible and leave - in my opinion - you are not a hunter.
Read my post - more then once before you jump down my back. Read this post - more then once before you jump down my back.
I am telling you - the deer situation is bad in Pennsylvania. It isn't that there isn't NO DEER, it's that there is a very limited amount of deer in the woods to hunt.
There are people who might only have saw one or two deer all this week, and there are people who has not seen any deer at all.
Maybe they are not good hunters - I don't know. But my dad taught me half of what I know today and my dad hunted all day Monday and never saw a deer - which is the first time that has ever happened in his entire hunting career and he is 75 yrs old.
My one brother - I let sit in my tree stand and he came home and said he saw 11 bucks and 9 does.
My other brother sat in my favorite tree stand yesterday and shot a 7 point buck about noon when my other brother wanted to walk back to the truck to eat lunch.
Why he would want to walk back to the truck when he had a roof over his head, walls around him, a Kerosun heater to keep him warm - is beyond me.
Most hunters - and I use that term gently, hunts by their watch and not by their common sense. They look at their watch and they set dead lines, if nothing comes along by 8:30 I am going to do this, if nothing comes along by 9 AM I am going to do that.
Deer move because hunters move. The very first deer that kid saw was probably because they were late getting into the woods and they walked right up on a deer and his dad told him to shoot it because he wanted to fill the tags and only had a limited amount of time to do so and he wanted his kid to be successful.
I hunted deer until I was 20 years old before I shot my first doe.
One reason was because you were only allowed to shoot one deer per a year and I shot a buck most years, other years I did not get a doe license and other years beyond that - I did not yet acquire the necessary skills to be a proficient hunter to be able to walk into the woods by myself and shoot a doe in the two days that the state gave you for doe season.
They are making it too easy for people to walk into the woods and just shoot everything in sight.
The Game Commission already knows that a bunch of crap is going on and the hunters are displeased with their decision to let people shoot doe's on the first day and they have toughened up the laws against poaching and illegal kills.
The Game Commission realizes that they are selling too many tags and there is too many deer being harvested and that some areas do not even have a deer anymore in the woods to hunt.
If you want deer - you have to stop shooting the doe's. There is nothing wrong with shooting a doe, but please - don't come on here one year bragging that you shot one on opening morning at 7 AM and come on here 5 years from now and blame the PGC that there is no more deer in Pennsylvania.
The Game Commission isn't shooting them - you are!
Teach your kids to be ethical hunters - teach them to let a doe walk on the first day and be more selective on which deer you do shoot and you can create a situation where it is more enjoyable for everyone. That was the point that I was trying to make and the point that I suppose the father friend of the boy that shot the doe understood when he read my post.
There is no law that says that you can't shoot a doe at 7 AM on the first day, but why do it? Are you really teaching your kids how to be a hunter when you shoot the first legal deer that walks down the trail?
You only learn how to be a hunter by going hunting multiple times and making mistakes - that is why it is called hunting and not getting.
Man you are crazy. Wanna ruin a kid on hunting quicker than anything is make him sit in the stand for days and not allow him to shoot anything. My boy is 4 and I promise you the first deer that steps out next year that is legal to shoot he'll be pulling the trigger on. I'm a selective hunter but I'm not going to punish my kid becuase of it. Apparently you don't have kids or either they really don't like you. The happiest/proudest moment of my hunting life will be when my son shoots his first deer, no matter what size it is. I promise you the kid didn't care if it was a buck or a doe. It's his first deer. If you do have kids do what you think is best for them, not for you.
Plus 100 on this point... duq doesn't have a clue how kids operate, attention span etc... if he has kids, their first fishing trip is/was probably for muskies.... and its supposed to be for perch.. dingbat is light for a name.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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...Grin..