24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321
B
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
B
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321

BP-B2

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
F
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
F
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
American BMW 3 series are now made in South Africa.

Nothing screams quality like Africa....


[Linked Image]



Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,145
C
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
C
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,145
Originally Posted by Barkoff
I mean I hear what you are saying, but then you tell me you have two Japanese cars in the driveway.

I was toying with the idea of buying a used BMW or Audi someday, when I looked into it I was discouraged. My friend has an expensive BMW, big heavy car with a V-12, he told me that when his brakes need replacing he just can't change the pads, the pads and rotors come as one now, very expensive brake jobs. Parts and service very expensive. Unreliable translating to expensive trips to the dealer.


I was taking issue with the CR and JD powers position that claims german cars are as unreliable as american cars, they aren't. Germans typically sell only their luxury models in the U.S. I'd buy them if they weren't so danged expensive but my wife and I put a lot of miles on vehicles and I can't afford to wear out a $50K car every five years. I've also been around long enough to know that I come out better financially if I buy a toyota camry and drive it for 300,000 miles than if I buy a chevy that dies after 150,000 miles, hence the japanese cars in the driveway.

Your friends BMW is a perfect example of what I was saying about expensive maintenance on german cars. Brakes are a wear item, sooner or later they're going to have to be replaced. That expensive brake job is another reason I don't have a german car, I can replace the brake pads on a camry for $12. If your friend bought a $70K V12 BMW then it would seem intuitive that maintenance on it was going to be expensive.

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Yes, replacement parts and service for German cars is very expensive. I've generally stopped going to the dealer for servicing and have been doing repairs after having dropped $4k for two new catalytic convertors, 4 O2 sensors and labor to install it all.

Your best bet on getting a German car is to get one that is 3-5 years old, with 20-40k on the Odo. It's taken a big hit in depriciation, the new car gremlins have been worked out, and you shouldn't have any major repair items or uber expensive 100k services to worry about. When the odo hits 99k, sell it.

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321
B
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
B
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321
I just sold a 2004 325I sedan that was bought new, driven easy and regularly serviced.

It became a lawn ornament. I refused to take it on road trips because of it's history of problems.

Went to Florida in the Spring and Michigan in September. I drove my 12 year old Mazda Millenia instead of the BMW both times because it's been totally trustworthy since new.

The BMW was replaced with an Acura.

BMW=hype

Acura=quality

IC B2

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,755
D
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
D
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,755
I think some of the compaints with Mercedes and BMW are due to fussy owners. I've known some owners for whom every little thing was a big deal, a major inconvenience, and they whine about little things that most of us take in stride.


He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.

- Albert Einstein
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,465
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,465
Originally Posted by Foxbat
American BMW 3 series are now made in South Africa.

Nothing screams quality like Africa....


BMW has been building cars in South Africa since the 70's.

One of my customers has a 2003 X5 4.4l that has over 410k miles on it. Engine is original, never had a valve job. Replaced the trans at 260k miles, and replaced the oil pump at 400k. Its been pretty bulletproof for him so far. Japanese car tend to nickel & dime you less, German cars just feel so much better on the road. For those that drive them, and are prepared for the extra maintenance, its worth it. (Great job security for me too smile ).

Last edited by badger; 12/07/10.

To anger a conservative, lie to him. To annoy a liberal, tell him the truth.

Promoted to Turdlike status 03/17/12



Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321
B
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
B
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321
Originally Posted by doubletap
I think some of the compaints with Mercedes and BMW are due to fussy owners. I've known some owners for whom every little thing was a big deal, a major inconvenience, and they whine about little things that most of us take in stride.


I'm not particularly fussy,...but when I buy a vehicle that's touts itself as being premium quality, I don't expect the ball joints and control arm to be completely trashed at 56,000 miles and I also don't expect them to have been made in China.

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,149
M
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
M
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,149
Originally Posted by Bristoe

The BMW was replaced with an Acura.

BMW=hype

Acura= quality



You will enjoy that Acura... Wife has a TL and it has been flawless.

ML


My biggest fear is when I die my wife sells all my gear for what I said I paid for it.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321
B
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
B
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2008/11/benz-and-beemer-start-food-co-op-for-chinese-parts/

Daimler AG plans to increase its sourcing of automotive components from China nearly eight-fold within four years. The luxury car maker will buy $3.25b worth of car components per year in China. Now, BMW is itching to get in on the act. Not that BMW is new to buying parts in China, they have done that for years, mostly unbeknown to their well-heeled customers.

IC B3

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
F
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
F
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Originally Posted by badger
Originally Posted by Foxbat
American BMW 3 series are now made in South Africa.

Nothing screams quality like Africa....


BMW has been building cars in South Africa since the 70's.

One of my customers has a 2003 X5 4.4l that has over 410k miles on it. Engine is original, never had a valve job. Replaced the trans at 260k miles, and replaced the oil pump at 400k. Its been pretty bulletproof for him so far. Japanese car tend to nickel & dime you less, German cars just feel so much better on the road. For those that drive them, and are prepared for the extra maintenance, its worth it. (Great job security for me too smile ).


But I doubt that X5 was built in South Africa. more likely SC, right?


[Linked Image]



Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,465
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,465
Yep. The SA built cars are good, though, equal to the US built one in quality.


To anger a conservative, lie to him. To annoy a liberal, tell him the truth.

Promoted to Turdlike status 03/17/12



Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411
O
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
O
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411
badger, were you going to soon, which BMW would you buy? Looking at an X5 for the wife, one that has been returned from lease. Any thoughts on beemers that were previously leased? Thanks.


The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.

What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,523
G
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
G
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,523
Originally Posted by Barkoff
I was toying with the idea of buying a used BMW or Audi someday, when I looked into it I was discouraged. My friend has an expensive BMW, big heavy car with a V-12, he told me that when his brakes need replacing he just can't change the pads, the pads and rotors come as one now, very expensive brake jobs. Parts and service very expensive. Unreliable translating to expensive trips to the dealer.

If I were to buy a Certified German car someday, all of this has taught me to pony up for the extended warranty.

I can't speak for their reliability, but it's a known fact that German cars, or any european cars for that matter, are expensive to service because of limited parts and service technicians knowledgeable enough to work on them. Fortunately, they don't appeal to me.

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,971
byc Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,971
I have a 1989 560SEL (garaged and Sunday driven) that's built like a tank. She only has 89K miles on her and will likely run for another 400K miles. I can confirm that in 1989 Mercedes was light years ahead of any car maker in technology and safety.

If SHTF and the zombies come out this car will be my zombie killer.


Proud to be a true Sandlapper!!

Go Nats!!!!


Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,877
J
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
J
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,877
I have a BMW Z4 with 50K on it, store it 5 months through the winter. It's been trouble free and one of the nicest cars I've every owed. We've had Hondas and Toyotas along the way and they were great cars but non compaired to the Z4.
Very worst car I've ever owned was a Chevy Monti Carlo, total POS, something that the union back in the mid 70's would be proud to produce.
One of the best running vehicles I've owned were a Ford F150 165K on it and a Chevy Suburban 155K. They ran great even after most of the body rusted away.


"The older I get, the better I was"
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,601
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,601
Originally Posted by Bristoe
I just sold a 2004 325I sedan that was bought new, driven easy and regularly serviced.

It became a lawn ornament. I refused to take it on road trips because of it's history of problems.

Went to Florida in the Spring and Michigan in September. I drove my 12 year old Mazda Millenia instead of the BMW both times because it's been totally trustworthy since new.

The BMW was replaced with an Acura.

BMW=hype

Acura=quality


Beemers and Acuras? Aw hell, there goes my image of you rocking and rolling down a dusty road in some Kentucky backwater in a beat up pickup, mason jar in one hand and sumptin' else in t'other, Waylon what's his face blaring some Godawful noise out the busted window ...

Damn it.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810
D
djs Offline
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810
Originally Posted by MontanaMan
Having been with both German & Japanese auto manufacturing, IMO, the basic answer lies in that the Germans focus on "high tech" gadgetry in many cases while the Nipponese focus much more on reliability across the board.

Simple answer to a complicated situation & many exceptions in both cases.

MM


The above is probably the reason.

The Germans focus on technology (e.g., BMW's iDrive control system that no one could figure out) while the Japanese focus on statistical quality control (W. Edwards Deming system - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming). Deming first offered the techniques to US automakers, but was rebuffed; he was invited to Japan and they adopted statistical quality control - the rest is history. The highest industrial award is Japan is the J. Edwards Deming Award.

Also, the German cars are not so unreliable, but when they break down, they are expensive to fix.

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 28,164
Barkoff Offline OP
Campfire Ranger
OP Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 28,164
I think Lexus is a Japanese car that can rival the big three German makers, but seems to be a little more reliable...however I'm not sure if you can get 300K out of a Lexus.







Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,510
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,510
I've owned one. A 528i. Never again.



NRA Lifer
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain
"Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me

Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
681 members (1beaver_shooter, 1Akshooter, 10gaugemag, 17CalFan, 12344mag, 74 invisible), 2,945 guests, and 1,424 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,672
Posts18,399,514
Members73,817
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.119s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.9006 MB (Peak: 1.0568 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 20:48:25 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS