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#4711124 - 12/16/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: 458 Lott]
jwp475 Offline
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 19401
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: 458 Lott
Penetration is but one factor in evaluating the performance of a round. The dia of the wound channel is also critical. A high velocity bullet is going to disrupt more tissue than a low velocity bullet, and once you get consistant exits, more penetration is not needed.

Years ago a sent some .475" 460 gr bullets to a guy who tested them at the Linebaugh seminar. He launched them out of a lowly 480 at a mere 1100 fps, and penetrated 38" of wet newsprint. I could conclude from that that a 480 is 83% as good as a 416 Rigby, and that your 500 linebaugh is 10% more powerful than a 416. But penetration isn't everything, and I don't hunt wet newsprint.


Penetration is not everything is correct. I was just show the fallicy of predicting penetration on velocity. The 475 Linebaugh, 500 JRH and Linebaugh will shoot through both shoulders of an QAsian Buffalo and exit on mature bull Bison. This I know because I have either done it or seen it done





_________________________
Originally Posted By: Jeff_O
.they WAY over penetrate on deer...


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#4711229 - 12/17/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: jwp475]
Arac Offline
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Registered: 11/20/10
Posts: 961
Loc: British Columbia
Originally Posted By: jwp475


Pentration depends on the bullet being used . At a Linebaugh seminar my 416 Rigby shootinging 410 rounds nose solids Federal Factory load at about 2386 FPSpenetrated 46" of wet pac. My 500 Linebaugh revolver shooting a hard cast WLFN flat ponit at 1091 FPS penetrated 50"

There are many many variable that dictate penetration


That "research" has been around for some time. Take a look:

http://470mbogo.com/PenetrationComparison.html

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#4711448 - 12/17/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: Arac]
jwp475 Offline
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 19401
Loc: USA


Just proving my point, penetration predictions are not always supported by the tests

The bullets being used plays a huge factor. Hard Cast bullets are not the preferred bullet for penetrating an Elephants skull for instance, too much bone. Meplat and nose shape play a huge role in penetration, etc. Many variables
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Jeff_O
.they WAY over penetrate on deer...


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#4711551 - 12/17/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: jwp475]
Arac Offline
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Registered: 11/20/10
Posts: 961
Loc: British Columbia
Originally Posted By: jwp475


Just proving my point, penetration predictions are not always supported by the tests

The bullets being used plays a huge factor. Hard Cast bullets are not the preferred bullet for penetrating an Elephants skull for instance, too much bone. Meplat and nose shape play a huge role in penetration, etc. Many variables


That's true. I wonder how long before someone tests Woodleigh's hydrostatically stabalized .45/70 bullet. I'd be curious to see how it stacks up with the heavy, wide meplat cast iron bullets. Sadly we are not allowed to use those Woodleighs on game up here, so it won't be me doing the testing!

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#4711581 - 12/17/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: Arac]
jwp475 Offline
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 19401
Loc: USA

Go to the Big Bore Forum on AR, Micheal458 has tested Woodliegh's and about everything else for that matter. The thread is titled Terminal Bullet Performance it is about 112 pages now and growing. Tons of info init

The 6.5 with the military solid like Bell used out pentrated every thing tested and #2 was the 9.3 with Woodliegh 320 grain solid.


Edited by jwp475 (12/17/10)
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Jeff_O
.they WAY over penetrate on deer...


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#4712293 - 12/17/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: jwp475]
Polska Offline
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Registered: 09/07/10
Posts: 363
Loc: Nowy Jork (New York) upstate
my only basis for thinking the 416 will out penetrate the .458 is beause the bullet is slightly narrower than the .458
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#4712398 - 12/17/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: jorgeI]
EvilTwin Offline
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Registered: 11/01/04
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Loc: Upstate NY
Awww,c'mon Jorge!! What I said was that the visible and immediate effects of the hits from the big 45's was devastating. The 375 killed nicely but our guns BOTH brought bufflers to their kneees from sheer impact. Bringing the performance levels to the big 45's of today such as the 458 Win Mag and the 458 Lott (including the 450 N.E) to compare to the 416's would likely show much heavier impacts and target effect. I would think the 416's are way more shootable than the big 45's though.
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#4713098 - 12/17/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: EvilTwin]
jorgeI Offline
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Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 24020
Loc: Orange Park, Florida
I don't know Jim. the first shot was not a good one and both of ours were placed right in the sweet spot. Had that 300gr pill hit the buff on the shoulder, the results would have been similar. Go here, on page 112 (yes 112!) complete with pictures. There is just no comparison:
PENETRATION TESTS



http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo276/michael458photos/DSC05373.jpg

http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo276/michael458photos/DSC02953.jpg

http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo276/michael458photos/DSC04585.jpg

http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo276/michael458photos/Bullet%20Album/DSC05854.jpg

While there is ZERO doubt the old Sharps will kill anything, they just can't compete with 1000 fps and modern solids.

jorge


Edited by jorgeI (12/17/10)
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Originally Posted By JoeBob
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#4714132 - 12/17/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: jorgeI]
GaryVA Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 2357
Loc: The Backcountry Mountains
Polska,

I built a very nice 416 Remington Magnum off an M70. I chopped it down and made it fairly light along the lines of Phil Shoemaker's light rifle. The barrel has a 375H&H contour and it has a lightweight stock, so it turned out very light for a 416. The balance is perfect and there is nothing sluggish in its handling. Using bread and butter Reloader 15 handloads, it works well on about anything you'd shoot with such cartridge. The rifle is well fit, and to me, the recoil is not too much over a stiff 375H&H.

I don't think I'd ever get rid of this rifle due to the work involved to get it where I wanted. But, if I felt the need to get another 416, I'd probably just grab an out of the box 416Ruger and be happy. I think I read a quote from Shoemaker where he wrote that there were probably more 416Rugers sold in the last couple years than all Rigbys sold in the last 100 years. Looking at sales figures, I tend to agree. With such a readily available rifle, you'd probably never have any issue obtaining ammo and/or reloads for many years to come. I've even read where Hornady is on a full court press to have their 375 and 416Ruger ammo readily available within Africa.

Reference needing stainless, I don't think that would give you a free ride if your rifle spends a lot of time in the bottom of a boat while exposed to salt water. No matter what you get, it'll probably end up ugly over the long haul being hosed down with spray paint and/or coated with some sort of teflon or black t, etc. I'd not let chrome moly become a deal breaker. Some of the stainless steels used can degrade pretty quick when continually exposed to salt water.

In reality though, outside professional use or maybe for someone who routinely kills the current "big 5", there is probably zero need for any of those cartridges for a hunting rifle used otherwise. For someone who is a mere short term visitor in a far away land, where the responsibilities of stopping game under an emergency situation falls squarely on the shoulders of an experienced professional guide; I'd worry more about doing your part as a hunter by placing an accurate shot with a recommended cartridge, and I'd leave the professional with the stopping rifle.

Best:)


Edited by GaryVA (12/17/10)
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#4714665 - 12/17/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: GaryVA]
jwp475 Offline
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 19401
Loc: USA
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Jeff_O
.they WAY over penetrate on deer...


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#4714730 - 12/17/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: GaryVA]
Polska Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/07/10
Posts: 363
Loc: Nowy Jork (New York) upstate
Originally Posted By: GaryVA
Polska,

I built a very nice 416 Remington Magnum off an M70. I chopped it down and made it fairly light along the lines of Phil Shoemaker's light rifle. The barrel has a 375H&H contour and it has a lightweight stock, so it turned out very light for a 416. The balance is perfect and there is nothing sluggish in its handling. Using bread and butter Reloader 15 handloads, it works well on about anything you'd shoot with such cartridge. The rifle is well fit, and to me, the recoil is not too much over a stiff 375H&H.

I don't think I'd ever get rid of this rifle due to the work involved to get it where I wanted. But, if I felt the need to get another 416, I'd probably just grab an out of the box 416Ruger and be happy. I think I read a quote from Shoemaker where he wrote that there were probably more 416Rugers sold in the last couple years than all Rigbys sold in the last 100 years. Looking at sales figures, I tend to agree. With such a readily available rifle, you'd probably never have any issue obtaining ammo and/or reloads for many years to come. I've even read where Hornady is on a full court press to have their 375 and 416Ruger ammo readily available within Africa.

Reference needing stainless, I don't think that would give you a free ride if your rifle spends a lot of time in the bottom of a boat while exposed to salt water. No matter what you get, it'll probably end up ugly over the long haul being hosed down with spray paint and/or coated with some sort of teflon or black t, etc. I'd not let chrome moly become a deal breaker. Some of the stainless steels used can degrade pretty quick when continually exposed to salt water.

In reality though, outside professional use or maybe for someone who routinely kills the current "big 5", there is probably zero need for any of those cartridges for a hunting rifle used otherwise. For someone who is a mere short term visitor in a far away land, where the responsibilities of stopping game under an emergency situation falls squarely on the shoulders of an experienced professional guide; I'd worry more about doing your part as a hunter by placing an accurate shot with a recommended cartridge, and I'd leave the professional with the stopping rifle.

Best:)


You confirmed my thoughts, thanks bro... nice to see some other people with common sense in this world haha. Your right, i'll leave the stopping to my partners or the guide. But i'm sure a .416 ruger is plenty to stop anything on the planet... some guys says the bullet is smaller, but that made actually be better because although it doesn't leave as big a hole as a .458 or a 50 caliber rifle, it can penetrate deeper which levels it out
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#4715359 - 12/18/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: jorgeI]
jorgeI Offline
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Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 24020
Loc: Orange Park, Florida
And more on page 114:
PENETRATION TESTS

Referencing the link above:
Jorge

You are 100% correct and spot on. In reality in the field, a cast bullet really cannot do the work of most any solid. The limiting factor is construction on this as I see it. While a good cast bullet will do a good job on critters, it in no way can compare with the construction of any FMJ or Solid. I have never worried with a cast bullet on the T'Rex test, I figure little point in that, but that one thing alone I am 100% sure would prove your point.

In the normal test medium the nose profile will take effect, a round nose solid just will not do, and even a cast in many cases may out penetrate those. But, if we move to nearly any sort of flat nose with a decent meplat and radius, then it's game over for the cast. This may be where some of your guys have picked up that the cast is better, and it's really a "false/Positive" effect, and a way that a cast bullet person can justify the position. Right or wrong. But there are many factors that come into play.

There is really no comparison...jorge
_________________________
Originally Posted By JoeBob
I don't need a genealogy lesson from a Cuban mustefino who caught a ride over on a leaky 1957 Chevy that used milk jugs for floats.
Of course, I do have some lettuce that needs to be picked if you are interested.

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#4719326 - 12/19/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: jorgeI]
Tonk Offline
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Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 3090
Loc: Chicago, Ill.
Jorge-1, while pictures of bullets on paper and so called written results might seem great to readers, the proof in in the tasting of the pudding.

So until I see the penetration test or said pictures of the test, this other stuff posted in purely speculation as far as penetration goes. This is why I do my own penetration tests on my rifle's and various calibers prior any hunt.
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#4719813 - 12/19/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: Tonk]
jorgeI Offline
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Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 24020
Loc: Orange Park, Florida
Suit yourself, those tests have been validated through and through by more that one individual. jorge
_________________________
Originally Posted By JoeBob
I don't need a genealogy lesson from a Cuban mustefino who caught a ride over on a leaky 1957 Chevy that used milk jugs for floats.
Of course, I do have some lettuce that needs to be picked if you are interested.

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#4719853 - 12/19/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: Tonk]
jwp475 Offline
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 19401
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Nothing wrong with those tests. The test are also followed up with and correlated to field results
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Jeff_O
.they WAY over penetrate on deer...


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#4720853 - 12/19/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: jwp475]
whelennut Offline
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Registered: 09/15/06
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Loc: Minnesota
I wonder how many people besides Harry Selby have worn out a .416 barrel? That must take a lot of shooting!
whelennut
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#4720892 - 12/19/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: whelennut]
jwp475 Offline
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Registered: 04/25/05
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He used that rifle as a professional hunter for decades. The most interesting part of that article to me was the part where Harry stated that he intended fro the 416 to simply be a stop gap measure until he could acquire another 470. After using the 416 and experiencing its performance he never felt the need to get another 470
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Jeff_O
.they WAY over penetrate on deer...


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#4721533 - 12/19/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: jwp475]
AussieGunWriter Offline
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Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 5311
Originally Posted By: jwp475


He used that rifle as a professional hunter for decades. The most interesting part of that article to me was the part where Harry stated that he intended fro the 416 to simply be a stop gap measure until he could acquire another 470. After using the 416 and experiencing its performance he never felt the need to get another 470


Yest but he story gets more interesting when you consider he used a model 70 push feed .458 for a stop gap when the .416 was bei8ng rebarreled and like it so much he sold the .416 and kept using the .458.

It is ok to be happy where you are but that doesn't mean you are as satisfied as you can be. When you start backtracking your preferences, that is when you are on the mark. Ultimately, as a seasoned professional, Harry could use what ever he wanted and in the end, the .458 was it.

JW
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#4721566 - 12/19/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: AussieGunWriter]
jwp475 Offline
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Registered: 04/25/05
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Originally Posted By: AussieGunWriter
Originally Posted By: jwp475


He used that rifle as a professional hunter for decades. The most interesting part of that article to me was the part where Harry stated that he intended fro the 416 to simply be a stop gap measure until he could acquire another 470. After using the 416 and experiencing its performance he never felt the need to get another 470


Yest but he story gets more interesting when you consider he used a model 70 push feed .458 for a stop gap when the .416 was bei8ng rebarreled and like it so much he sold the .416 and kept using the .458.

It is ok to be happy where you are but that doesn't mean you are as satisfied as you can be. When you start backtracking your preferences, that is when you are on the mark. Ultimately, as a seasoned professional, Harry could use what ever he wanted and in the end, the .458 was it.

JW



Harry never claimed the 458 to be better than his 416, but the money offered for the 416 was to good to pass up and I would have done the same same

Harry has PM'd a friend of his on AR to post the story of his 416 when a question about it arose. Harry said that the 416 had all of the stopping power one could ever need and was flat enough for 300 yards shots on fleeing game wounded by clients

No fly's on the 416 at all


Originally Posted By: Harry Shelby



I estimate that over a fifty five year career I have used .470s for four
years and a .458 for maybe six to eight years.
The Rigby .416 was always my weapon of choice and if I was to start
a hunting career all over again the first rifle I would acquire would be a
Rigby .416.




http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1411043/m/9561097831?r=6591010931#6591010931




Edited by jwp475 (12/19/10)
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Jeff_O
.they WAY over penetrate on deer...


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#4721598 - 12/19/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: jwp475]
jwp475 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 19401
Loc: USA


The entire post
---------------------------------------------------------------

Link to thread; http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1411043/m/9561097831?r=6591010931#6591010931



BaxterB
one of us

Posted Aug 25, 8:58 AM Hide Post
In response to the many questions raised by Harry's first response to this post, I culled out as many questions as I could from the text, added a few that I thought might come up on a second round and Harry was gracious enough to answer them (plus others) in a final post about this, in what I consider great detail.

As you will see, he spent an awful lot of time clearing up things in regards to this rifle and has settled the 'controversy' over Rigby's turn-around time in regards to the work they did on his 416.

We all owe Harry a debt of gratitude for taking the time to respond. Thanks Harry!

Once again, Harry Selby....



"I did err is stating that the accident to the .470 happened in 1950/51....
just a slip up... after all we are talking about sixty years ago.... it
should have read 1949/50 I think. I took Bob and Harriet Maytag and Bob and
Ginny Ruark in 1951....using the Rigby .416. In the latter part of that year
I went to the States and eventually Kodiak Island where I shot a Kodiak
bear.

Rigby was in no way to blame for the delay in getting the .416 Rigby back to
me.... they accomplished the job... rebarreling (barrel from Austria) and a
complete stock refurbish in good time. (by that time there was no blueing
left on the metalparts and the stock finish was all gone) (See Pic of three
Selby Rifles)


When Rigby's tried to ship the rifle back to me a woman in the government
department responsible to imports / exports blankly refused to issue an
export permit as the rifle would pass through South Africa and there was
an embargo on all arms to SA at that time...
Telling her that it was destined for Botswana cut no ice (I am sure she was
just plain 'Anti Hunting') (I even produced a letter from the Botswana
police to the effect that the rifle was registered in Botswana.... no luck)

Eventually Paul Roberts went over her head to the minister and got the
export permit sorted out. It did not take three years as has been
claimed..

I am not left handed... I do everything right handed except that I shoot
from my left shoulder...maybe my left eye is the 'master eye'.
Cycling the bolt was no big deal, I merely lowered the stock slightly,
gripping the pistol grip with my left hand and with my right hand worked the
bolt.... fast enough... in any case I prefer one or two precisely aimed
shot to a fusilade of random rapid fire

I have always thought of the magazine held four cartridges... maybe my
memory played tricks on me!!! but when Rigby did the work on the rifle they
replaced the original magazine follower which was much shorter than the box with a
full length one....It was more robust and heavier as well...I think it came from
a Brno 602 action.... maybe this prevented Layne Simpson closing the bolt
over four cartridges.
Maybe I also realised this when the rifle came back from Rigby'
but have forgotten about it.
I will refer this to a gunsmith friend of mine for his opinion.

The inscription on the mag. plate was done by Rigby at that time of
re-barreling and the date 1949 was either the date the rifle was despatched
or perhaps the date it was entered on my Firearms Certificate in Nairobi.
I seem to recollect that Paul Roberts said he would use the date it left
Rigby's.

The .458 did me well enough but to even suggest that I had become attached
to it and sold the Rigby .416 as a result is laughable... it is
like comparing chalk and cheese.
I sold the Rigby .416 as I was approaching the time I would plan to retire
and the Rigby was offered a very good home by a client and his wife with
whom I had been on safari a number of times and had become close personal
friends.
I preferred to do it that way rather than have the possibility of the rifle
winding up under some auctioneer's hammer one day!!!!
I have done the same with some of my other rifles.... sold them to old
clients who have become close friends over the years.
Movement of firearms is becoming more restrictive in most parts of Africa
and I preferred to see my precious rifles in good homes elsewhere.
It took a whole year to get an 'in-transit permit' for another rifle of mine to
pass through South Africa a while back.(less than 12 hours in SA)

If I remember correctly the rifle was sent to Rigby's sometime in the early
eighty's and I immediately began using the Rigby as soon as it came back.
One of the safaris I did with it was John Wootters '.416 Safari' in
1987.. John Wootters, Jack Carter (of Trophy Bonded bullets) and Paul
Roberts of Rigby's were testing Jack's TB ammo. on Buffalo. We had in camp
two Rigby .416s... Pauls's and mine. one .416 Hoffman (Jack's) and John
Wootters' .416 Taylor. (Petersen's Hunting August 1988 by Wootters.)

I also took the Rigby to Tanzania ( Maswa, Moiowase, Ugalla, Monduli)
for a four week safari with TGTS later (I forget the year ) and due to the
chaotic customs handling of rifles at the Nairobi Airport lost it for over a
month...eventually it turned up in Maun ...intact.... fortunately.

Incidentally as soon as.416 bullets became available I had no further ammo
worries.... I was getting fairly low until that happened though.
By turning the belts off ..460 and .378 Weatherby cases, resizing them
carefully and then fire forming. ....they worked well enough.

When factory loaded Rigby 416 ammo became available I usually chose
Federal although I used mainly hand loads.
Remember a PH does not use a lot of ammo.... hopefully..... so a couple of
boxes lasted a while.

I just like the feel of a broad trigger and by adding the shoe suited me
well..
I did the same to some of my other rifles. I never used a sling. it can get
one entangled in the bush. I carry a rifle over my right shoulder gripping
the barrel in my right hand.

I estimate that over a fifty five year career I have used .470s for four
years and a .458 for maybe six to eight years.
The Rigby .416 was always my weapon of choice and if I was to start
a hunting career all over again the first rifle I would acquire would be a
Rigby .416.
P.S. Layne Simpson's article described the rifle well but it contained many
inaccuracies which I am sure did not originate with Joe Coogan...
he would have known better.
I did not start my career with Ker & Downey Safaris. I started with
Percival and 'African Guides"
Donald Ker was using a Dodge Power Wagon not a Land Rover when he ran
over my .470.
I did not rush back to Nairobi for another rifle, the safari was
just about over anyway and on its way back to Nairobi.
Gunbearer Kidogo was recommended to Ruark not by Hemingway but by an
American by the name of Russel Aitkin who had hunted with Frank Bowman.
Layne also claimed that I never used the rifle again after its return to
Botswana
NOT SO I used it for a number of years. He mentions the bluing worn off the
barrel.....that wear took place after it came back to Botswana chasing buffalo and
tracking lions.
P.P.S.
To conclude I might mention that after I had used to Rigby .416 for a couple
of years and came to appreciate its qualities I decided to do something about the
dimensions of the stock to suit my desire for a very powerful but handy rifle
for my purpose as a professional hunter.

To me the stock was a bit bulky, especially in the forend area and pistol grip
(I really like a slender pistol grip).
Being handy with tools I very carefully shaved the stock down in the areas I
considered 'bulky' until I came up with what I considered just right for me.
The recoil was lively but I could not give a fig about that... I wanted a very
powerful rifle I could swing like a twenty gauge. So infact the stock dimensions
of this rifle probably differ from any rifles coming direct from the Rigby shop.

Naturally all chequering was removed and not having the skill or the tools
to re-chequer I merely gave the carefully sanded and filled surface a good oil finish
The stock remained thus for a number of years ... (see pic of Selbys rifles on safari)
until I moved south and an excellent gunsmith in South Africa rechequered the stock
for me.

When Rigby worked on the rifle, they cleaned up the chequering again and worked
on the overall stock finish in addition to a complete re-bluing job.

I apologise for the rather lengthy response hopefully covering all queries.... in-fact I feel rather like a baboon being debugged by the rest of the troop."

PICS
Harry's rifles on safari left to right .Rigby .416 (notice lack of checkering on stock -bb) , Win mod.70 .375 H&H (stock Westley Richards)
Win. 243 Stock Hal Hartley. Brno .22 long rifle (stock worked on by Selby)
Wootters safari hunting buffalo with Jack Carter ( Selby carrying .Rigby .416)


Edited by jwp475 (12/19/10)
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Jeff_O
.they WAY over penetrate on deer...


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#4722244 - 12/20/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: jwp475]
BobinNH Offline
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Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 30532
jwp: Good post...very good reading wink
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#4730005 - 12/21/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: BobinNH]
Polska Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/07/10
Posts: 363
Loc: Nowy Jork (New York) upstate
416's seem like good balance of power, penetration, and recoil. the .375 below it, is flat shooting and good for dangerous game, but lacks the stopping power of it's larger cousins the .458 lott, .505 gibbs etc. The 416 has slightly more stopping power than the 375, but not as brutal recoil as the lott, which is good because it lets you get a better follow up shots faster. IT's a good middle ground.. which is why I will buy the ruger alaskan in .416 ruger. 20" barrel, stainless/synthetic, can't beat it for real world hunting
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Jeszcze Polska nie zginela kiedy my zyjemy,co nam obca przemoc wziela szabla odbierzemy.

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#4730177 - 12/22/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: Polska]
jorgeI Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 24020
Loc: Orange Park, Florida
And you are spot on. The 416 can even shoot almost as flat as a 375 and it has great penetration as well. Another big time elephant hunter and PH, Tony Sanchez Arino also used a 416 extensively. For a client it is THE ideal DG cartridge from lion to elephant. jorge
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Originally Posted By JoeBob
I don't need a genealogy lesson from a Cuban mustefino who caught a ride over on a leaky 1957 Chevy that used milk jugs for floats.
Of course, I do have some lettuce that needs to be picked if you are interested.

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#4730779 - 12/22/10 Re: .416's vs. 458's [Re: jorgeI]
Polska Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/07/10
Posts: 363
Loc: Nowy Jork (New York) upstate
Originally Posted By: jorgeI
And you are spot on. The 416 can even shoot almost as flat as a 375 and it has great penetration as well. Another big time elephant hunter and PH, Tony Sanchez Arino also used a 416 extensively. For a client it is THE ideal DG cartridge from lion to elephant. jorge


I'm sure it has some stopping power too, without the severe jump of the .458 lott or bigger guns. I wonder which penetrates better the lott or the rigby
_________________________
Jeszcze Polska nie zginela kiedy my zyjemy,co nam obca przemoc wziela szabla odbierzemy.

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