CLICK HERE for $70 INSTANT SAVINGS on Eligible NIKON MONARCH 5 BINOCULARS!
 

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#4738542 - 12/24/10 .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger
WanabeBwana Offline
Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 19
What would be the best choice for Cape Buffalo at 100yds, a .458 Winchester Supreme 500gr. Nosler solid at 2240 fps or a 400gr Hornady solid at 2370 fps from a .416 (In this case a Rigby).
My .458 is a Browning FN with a 24" barrel. The Rigby is a CZ 550 with 25" tube.The recoil is about the same with the Rigby weighing an extra pound. Both rifles are scoped with Swarovski 1.5-6x42 glass.
Since I can only bring one gun I need a little help.
Cape Buff will be the only game on the menu with these rifles.
Thanks
Wana

Top
RV 728 BP
#4738583 - 12/24/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: WanabeBwana]
Mule Deer Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 37024
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
Neither. You don't want a solid for hunting buffalo anymore, at least for the first shot, with all the good expanding bullets available.

There are a bunch of good expanding bullets for both cartridges: Barnes TSX's, Hornady DGX's, North Forks, Nosler Partitions, Swift A-Frames, etc. etc. Either round will work fine on Cape buffalo with any of these.
_________________________
John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

Top
#4738891 - 12/24/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: Mule Deer]
jorgeI Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 24457
Loc: Orange Park, Florida
Exactly what MD said. The only times solids are needed are elephant, rhino and hippo on dry land.
_________________________
Originally Posted By JoeBob
I don't need a genealogy lesson from a Cuban mustefino who caught a ride over on a leaky 1957 Chevy that used milk jugs for floats.
Of course, I do have some lettuce that needs to be picked if you are interested.

Top
#4738946 - 12/24/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: WanabeBwana]
jwp475 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 19573
Loc: USA


If it were me I'd take a 416 with 350 grain TSX bullets and not look back. If you want a few solids then the 350 Band Solid flat point will work nicely.

The TSX bullets will be about all that you will need
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Jeff_O
.they WAY over penetrate on deer...


Top
#4739148 - 12/24/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: jwp475]
Polska Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/07/10
Posts: 363
Loc: Nowy Jork (New York) upstate
from what i've heard the .416's ruger,taylor, rigby, remington... penetrate better then the .458 win mag, but the win mag has more knockdown power and stopping power because it can fire heavier bullets. The .416 has slightly smaller diameter making it easier to penetrate anything. The .458 win mag was originally designed to be the only gun you'd need for any animal on earth in any situation, however early safari guys found out that it has lack of penetration because the powder did not allow the 500 grain bullet to reach 2,150 feet per second which was considered the "golden mark" to kill any animal on Earth. This is why the .458 lott was invented which pushes a .458 500 grain bullet at 2200-2300fps so slightly greater than the win mag... some argue if it's really necessary. Hornady's superformance makes a good win mag load that gets up to it's 2,150 fps golden mark.

IN general the rule of thumb is such that the larger diameter the bullet the harder it will be to penetrate... all else being equal. So therefore a .458 win mag 400 grain load @2350fps and a .416 ruger load @ 2350fps with both the SAME EXACT bullets the .416 ruger will penetrate further.. this is common sense of course
_________________________
Jeszcze Polska nie zginela kiedy my zyjemy,co nam obca przemoc wziela szabla odbierzemy.

Bog, Honor, Ojczyzna

Top
#4739156 - 12/24/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: Polska]
Polska Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/07/10
Posts: 363
Loc: Nowy Jork (New York) upstate
Since yoru going for cape buffalo I would use a high quality controlled expansion bullet... a-square makes a "dead tough" bullet which is basically like a medium expansion bullet some where in between a monolithic solid and a fully expanding soft point. Controlled expansion is what you want for cape buffalo, atleast on the first shot, the rest of the bullet i'd want solids in case of a charge. But thats just me.
_________________________
Jeszcze Polska nie zginela kiedy my zyjemy,co nam obca przemoc wziela szabla odbierzemy.

Bog, Honor, Ojczyzna

Top
#4739292 - 12/24/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: Polska]
toltecgriz Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 17570
I'd be more apt to want a solid if the buff was headed away. And even then, a heavy controlled expansion bullet would not worry me.
_________________________
"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett

Top
#4739689 - 12/24/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: toltecgriz]
Lhook7 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 370
Loc: Cheyenne, WY
As others have suggested, I would reconsider using a solid. Personally I would use the 416 Rigby; I also suggest getting much closer than 100 yards. Good luck on your hunt!

Top
#4739848 - 12/24/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: Lhook7]
mopaneMike Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 459
As Lhook brings us too..

I too was wondering, why do you want to shoot your Buff from so far??

MM

Top
#4740020 - 12/24/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: mopaneMike]
steve1 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 07/18/05
Posts: 1085
Loc: NJ
I wanted a .416 Rigby in a CZ550 when I went to Tanzania three years ago....none was available locally ,but I got a deal on CZ550 Safari Magnum Express in .458 that was too good to pass up.I called Barnes and they recommended a load with H4895 and their 450 gr. TSX which chronoed 2170 with the bullet set out closer to .458 Lott specs.That rifle has a longer magazine box than most .458 Winchester chambered guns. It fed very well and my first shot came at 103 yds. (lasered). It was a complete passthrough on a broadside shot just behind the shoulders.
Unfortunately, I shot just a hair high and the job required three follow ups.He was dead on his feet,but he didn't know it. They were all from straight on in the front and all penetrated completely to his hips through a full paunch. All mushroomed perfectly.When the skinners dug in to retrieve my bullets,I couldn't believe all the grass.
With TSXs,penetration with the .458 will be everything you need.As always,bullet placement is the key.

Top
#4740235 - 12/24/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: steve1]
Siskiyous6 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 11/20/04
Posts: 6207
Loc: Del Norte County, State of Jef...
I dont think either caliber is a bad choice, but I do think the 416's are better for all around use.
_________________________
Ignorance is not confined to uneducated people.

RAND PAUL 2016!

WHO IS
JOHN GALT?


LIBERTY!











Top
#4740386 - 12/24/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: Siskiyous6]
AussieGunWriter Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 5382
A trip to Africa is the treat of a lifetime for many and you all know enough to know that just about any of the legal combo's will work and you always have your PH to fall back on to confirm any info you learn from external sources.

My advice is to take the rifle that pleases you so you can focus on the enjoyment of the experience.

I personally would prefer a .458 caliber over a .416 for dangerous game so there is my choice. It has a lot to do with the rifle, the way it handles, feels to grasp and manouver if situations get tight. Your response time with follow up shots and the ability to place those shots accuractely, all of primary importance and way above cartridge choice.

As JB said, the quality soft points tear up a lot of flesh, break bone and penetrate well enough to make them the best choice for at least that first shot and I would be happy to also use them for the follow up shots. There is also the safety aspect to reduce the possibility of complete penetration when using a solid and wounding a second animal inadvertenly.

That aforementioned 450gn TSX is a super bullet that I feel is somewhat underated in the .458 case. I can load it to 2300-2350fps in my own .458 Model 70 and would be happy to use it on the larger bovines.

JW
_________________________
The .30/06 threads tend to confirm that there is no animal that cannot be taken using the appropriate bullet.
This essentially means, only a legal aspect remains.

Top
#4740395 - 12/24/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: AussieGunWriter]
Swampman700 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 11207
Get a .375 H&H it's good for everything.
_________________________
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Top
#4740415 - 12/24/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: Swampman700]
jwp475 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 19573
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Swampman700
Get a .375 H&H it's good for everything.



And a 416 or 458 isn't?
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Jeff_O
.they WAY over penetrate on deer...


Top
#4740469 - 12/24/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: jwp475]
John55 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 08/20/06
Posts: 372
of the two choices mentioned, I'd take whichever rifle felt the best or I shot the best with. Use Barnes TSXs in either one and you're good to go, no solids needed.

Top
#4741198 - 12/24/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: jwp475]
Swampman700 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 11207
Originally Posted By: jwp475
Originally Posted By: Swampman700
Get a .375 H&H it's good for everything.



And a 416 or 458 isn't?


Not so good for plains game IMO.
_________________________
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Top
#4741203 - 12/24/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: Swampman700]
jwp475 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 19573
Loc: USA


Can't see why not especially the 416's
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Jeff_O
.they WAY over penetrate on deer...


Top
#4741254 - 12/24/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: jwp475]
doclee Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 460
Loc: central Texas
I took both a 416 Rigby and a 458 Lott on this years trip to Matetsi area in Zimbabwe. The 416 was scoped, the lott not. I took bull elephant,zebra,hyena,impala,and waterbuck and hunted buffalo. Either would have worked fine for all species but I prefer an unscoped rifle for the close range elephant work.

Top
#4741288 - 12/24/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: doclee]
Mule Deer Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 37024
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
When my .416 Rigby has a scope, it's in detachable Talley rings so the scope can be taken off if I hunt big stuff in thick stuff. When scoped, it's just as flat-shooting and accurate as a .375 H&H.

I must also comment that while the .458 Winchester hits somewhat harder than any of the three .416 "R's" (Rigby, Remington and Ruger) it would take a hell of a lot of buffalo killed to find any statistical difference. If you make a good shot with either, the buffalo will soon be dead. If you don't, you be flinging more lead--or copper.
_________________________
John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

Top
#4741305 - 12/24/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: Mule Deer]
jorgeI Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 24457
Loc: Orange Park, Florida
Yeah an dif you REALLY want to impress a buffalo, try at 416 Weatherby like Layne Simpson says. That 400gr2700 really gets their attention! smile As to the 458, no doubt a proven and impressive killer, but it's almost like a double in that it is a specialized caliber for closer in work. There's just no getting away from the fact the 416 "Rs" are a great caliber and a lot more versatile. jorge


Edited by jorgeI (12/24/10)
_________________________
Originally Posted By JoeBob
I don't need a genealogy lesson from a Cuban mustefino who caught a ride over on a leaky 1957 Chevy that used milk jugs for floats.
Of course, I do have some lettuce that needs to be picked if you are interested.

Top
#4741313 - 12/24/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: Mule Deer]
jwp475 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 19573
Loc: USA


+1.........
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Jeff_O
.they WAY over penetrate on deer...


Top
#4742086 - 12/25/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: jwp475]
IndyCA35 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 03/25/02
Posts: 3639
Loc:
I think most PHs will tell you to use a soft point for the first shot and solids for the rest. After the first shot the buffalo will probably be running away and you can penetrate to the heart/lungs with a Texas heart shot if you use a solid. I too, like a previous poster, have had success with the Barnes 450 grain .458 TSX at a MV of 2250.
_________________________
“I want to make it clear to you, Iran is not building these ICBMs to hit Israel. They already have missiles that can hit Israel everywhere. They are building these ICBMs to hit you. To hit the United States.” Benjamin Netanyahu

Top
#4742334 - 12/25/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: jorgeI]
Mule Deer Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 37024
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
Just did some "uploading" of the .416 Rigby. Turns out it's easy to get 2650 with a 400--which makes sense as the case holds just slightly less powder than the Wby. Think that would work?
_________________________
John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

Top
#4742341 - 12/25/10 Re: .458 Win Mag vs .416 Rigby,Remington or Ruger [Re: Mule Deer]
Oregon45 Online   content
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 10370
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Mule Deer
Just did some "uploading" of the .416 Rigby. Turns out it's easy to get 2650 with a 400--which makes sense as the case holds just slightly less powder than the Wby. Think that would work?


Nah, better AI it...

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Moderator:  RickBin, SYSOP 
RV 180 2
CLICK HERE for HUGE SAVINGS on VORTEX OPTICS at CAMERA LAND!
RV 160 1 2
RV 160 2 2
Who's Online
549 registered (1899sav, 21, 204guy, 163dm, 17Hunter, 62 invisible), 1122 Guests and 239 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
RV 160 3 2
Forum Stats
53,506 Registered Members
72 Forums
693,004 Topics
10,013,594 Posts

Most users ever online: 4,830 @ 12/02/14










Copyright © 2000-2015 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.