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#479371 - 04/28/05 458 Win reduced loads
rembo Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 11/08/00
Posts: 2278
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I have made a deal on a Ruger #1 in 458 Win Mag...should arrive in a few days.

I can't seem to locate any data for reduced loads duplicating a 45-70. I think I may need something like this to get started.

Anyone have a link to some data?...or some data to share?
"after the bullet leaves the barrel it doesn't care what headstamp was on the case"
"The 221 Fireball is what the Hornet could have been had it stayed in school"

RV 728 BP
#479372 - 04/28/05 Re: 458 Win reduced loads
BullShooter Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/24/04
Posts: 1467
Loc: The U.P.'s U.P.
In American Hunter of Feb 1985, Finn Aagaard listed two loads as being .45-70 equivalents, one using a 300 gr bullet and the other a 400 gr bullet.

In Handloader May-June 1978, Clay Harvey has an article titled "De-Magnumizing the .458 Winchester Magnum" and lists several loads with 300, 350, 400, and 405 gr bullet.

Several light loads in "Reader By-Lines" are listed in Handloader 81 (Sept-Oct 1979), page 10.

Ken Water's Pet Loads article on the .458 in [Handloader 92 (July-Aug 1981) lists several reduced loads with 300 and 400 gr bullets.

The starting loads listed in the Lyman reloading manuals are about the equivalent of .45-70 loads. I think the Speer manual also lists reduced .458 loads.

Ed Matunas wrote an article in the 1990 Handloader's Digest titled "Handloading the Really Big Bores for Deer", and listed some .45-70 equivalent loads. Ray Ordorica did the same in the 1994 Handloader's Digest titled "The 458 Revisited".

Just some places to start looking.

#479373 - 04/28/05 Re: 458 Win reduced loads
bearhuntr Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 2508
Loc: at Grandma's house...

Many standard manuals offer reduced loads for the winny. The Hornady and Speer offerings show a few...

Posted by: "Ironbender-"Firm yet rude". That should be my sig line!"

#479374 - 04/28/05 Re: 458 Win reduced loads
GreatWhiteNorth Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 568
Loc: Minnesota
Been there done that! Be careful with your powder selection as hangfires can be rather unpleasant. I would suggest the 350 Hornady Interlock for hunting. If you are hunting milk jugs filled with water I would use the 300 gr Hollow point. IMR 4198 might be a good place to start for powders. I would start at 50 grs and work up with the 300 grain bullet for a light recoil load. The Sierra Anniversary Edition lists the load of choice as 70.3 grs of IMR 3031 and the 300 gr HP. This would give you 2400 fps and 3836 ft lbs. of woodchuck busting power. Enjoy!

Edited by GreatWhiteNorth (04/28/05)
Use Enough Gun!

#479375 - 05/01/05 Re: 458 Win reduced loads
Arizona Offline

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 64
Loc: Mtns of the desert SW

I have a #1 and an M77 both in .458 Win Mag and they both shoot nicely with the following load that duplicates heavy 45-70 loads...

400gr/405gr JFP over 67.0gr IMR-4064/CCI200/W-W cases

This loading gives me 1915fps in my guns and shoots 1" at 50 yards easily. It's a very pleasant load and a fun plinker yet packs plenty of wallop for nearly all North American big game as-is.

I've found the .458 Win Mag to be very easy to load for and alot of fun.
Outdoorsman, Adventurer, Patriot

#479376 - 05/02/05 Re: 458 Win reduced loads
458 Lott Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/29/01
Posts: 15614
Loc: Conundrum, Alaska
Just stick with 350 gr bullets, even top level loads aren't that bad, and they'll take any NA animals. They are night and day different then shooting 500's. Reloader 7 is a great powder for the 350 grainers.
I'm not a gunwriter, that's 458 win. I'm just a gun-nut in Alaska.

#479377 - 05/28/05 Re: 458 Win reduced loads
Dov Offline
New Member

Registered: 05/27/05
Posts: 1
What 350 grain bullets are recommended for NA game? Is there one that will work fine on Deer and Moose?

#479378 - 05/28/05 Re: 458 Win reduced loads
Charlie_Sisk Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 02/21/02
Posts: 2074
Loc: Dayton, Texas
Have a look here...

I copied this from their site , used it several times myself with no problems. DO NOT use that data with anything other than H4895, no telling what might happen.

Hodgdon Powder Company has developed the following reduced loads for youth and beginning shooters for use on deer and similarly sized game animals. The bullets chosen were originally designed for single shot pistols and their lower velocities. These loads have been developed to closely approximate those pistol velocities in rifles, and therefore, similar performance on game animals. This provides our young and beginning shooters with loads effective to 200 yards with minimal recoil.

For all cartridges we chose H4895 because it is the slowest burning propellant that ignites uniformly at reduced charges. For years, H4895 has been the top choice by cast bullet shooters. For this type shooting, loads are reduced even more than the hunting loads listed herein. To create loads of this type for target and plinking, we recommend our 60% rule with H4895. By taking the maximum charges listed in our Annual Manual with any given cartridge and multiplying it by 60%, the shooter can create a 1500 to 2100 fps load, depending on the bullet weight shown. This works only where H4895 is listed. Do not use H4895 in a cartridge where it has not been shown.

Call Hodgdon Powder Company if additional information is needed. Loads may be adjusted up or down to achieve best accuracy. Do not reduce by more than an additional 10%.

The data and opinions contained in these posts are the results of experiences with my equipment, componentry, and testing methodology ONLY. As your equipment, componentry, and methodology is different, NO CONCLUSIONS SHOULD BE DRAWN FROM ANY DATA PRESENTED, nor should any data presented form the basis for any load development. DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, ATTEMPT TO REPLICATE THESE RESULTS, as doing so could be extremely dangerous.

#479379 - 06/03/05 Re: 458 Win reduced loads
Chuckbuster Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 435
Loc: Southern Michigan
I used to have a No1 458.
Standard primer, Win Brass, 350 Hornady RN and 72gr RL 7
Fun and Accurate
I have "CDO". It is just like "OCD" except the letters are in alphabetical order LIKE THEY SHOULD BE!

#479380 - 06/15/05 Re: 458 Win reduced loads
Hubert Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 08/10/03
Posts: 8076
Loc: PA
Simply use the 45/70 load chart's. in the 458..

#479381 - 06/16/05 Re: 458 Win reduced loads
liled Offline

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 151
Loc: San Antonio/ Texas
I have not had good luck with 350's in mine. I built a m77 left hand SS 458. with a 21' Mcgowen barrel. My twist must not be right. I get the best results with 400-500 grn bullets. Slow them down and they will thump you less. I give you a few of my favs. and you can sort them out. (These are safe in my rifle)

69.7gn H-Varget under a 450 gr hawk RN 1930fps
46.1 gn ACC XMP 5744 405 jacket 45-70 1894fps (adv) good acc load
44.8gn ACC XMP 5744 450 grn hawk 1765fps

Thes are a bit faster but good accurate loads in my M77.

65.2gn IMR 3031 450 hawk or X bullet 2055 accurate
or 57.6 grn of RL 7 and the same bullets about the same speed. This will turn a bull nilgai inside out

#479382 - 06/16/05 Re: 458 Win reduced loads
Blackwater Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 693
Try the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. Lots of downloaded data there.

#479383 - 06/16/05 Re: 458 Win reduced loads
blackhawk44 Offline

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 230
Loc: San Antonio, Republic of Texas
Like Chuckbuster said. Shows that he is a Ken Waters follower also. Use it in my M70 and a friend's Mauser. Does the job on game and not on you.

#479384 - 06/17/05 Re: 458 Win reduced loads
BigUglyMan Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 06/16/05
Posts: 1381
Loc: Kugluktuk, Nunavut
Hey, I know you...
"This duty fell upon me and was the worst job I ever had in my life.
I have known men I would rather shoot than the worst of dogs."

Frank Wild
Second in Command
Endurance 1914-1916

#479385 - 06/24/05 Re: 458 Win reduced loads
DanEP Offline

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 92
I know you asked this question 2 months ago, but you might find the stuff in the following website useful:

It duplicates the Speer reloading manual suggestions.


In my experience, SR 4759 powder has proven more accurate and more reliable than IMR 4198 or H4198 in light .458 Mag. loads. And the Speer 400 grain FP bullet has proven a better choice than the 300 grain HP bullets intended for .45-70 loads.

Here are some specifications of interest to .458 Mag. reloaders: bullet diameter .458", maximum COL 3.34", maximum case length 2.50", MAP 53,000 cup.

Here are useful .458 Mag. loads for hunting CXP2 class game in the woods, courtesy of the Speer Reloading Manual, Number 13. 26.0 grains of SR 4759 powder behind a 400 grain Speer flat point bullet will give a MV of 1262 fps, and 30.0 grains of SR 4759 behind the same bullet gives a MV of 1445 fps. These loads were tested in a 24" rifle barrel using Winchester cases and CCI 250 primers.

I load 29.0 grains of SR 4757 for a MV of about 1400 fps with the Speer 400 grain bullet, essentially duplicating the traditional .45-70 factory load. This load is exceptionally accurate in my Browning/FN rifle.



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