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#4811987 - 01/12/11 Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use?
strosfann Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/03/11
Posts: 471
Loc: Tomball, TX
I recently picked up a mint Remington 504 in 22 lr and need to scope it. I'm torn between finding a rimfire specific variable with the paralax set @ 50-75 yds, going with a high magnification AO scope or just using a standard 2-7 or 3-9. The Rimfire Central crowd would lead you to believe you need an AO scope that tops out at 15-20x in order to shoot well. I'm leaning towards getting a smallish standard scope (Vortex Viper 2-7x32 or Minx ZA3 3-9x40). I really don't want an oversized scope on this beautiful rifle and I don't want to overpay for a rimfire scope when I can get a high quality standard scope for less $.

This gun is meant to be used as a trainer for punching paper and small game hunting in order to save $ over shooting my centerfires. As long as the scope is mounted as low as possible and I am positioned correctly I'd assume the full value of the paralax error formula wouldn't apply would it? Isn't that a maximum value for use if you are way off center in the scope?

Too many questions, I need some answers.

Thanks in advance - Strosfann

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#4812123 - 01/12/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: strosfann]
Eremicus Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 18881
Loc: Placerville,CA,USA
Rimfire scopes usually feature finer reticles and have their parallax set for something like 60 yds. This parallax setting allows you to shoot smaller groups at the shorter, 25-75 yd. ranges
Some companies, like Leupold, will reset their standard big game scopes for a shorter ranges which would allow you to use any of them for that.
There are also some excellent, smaller AO scopes which allow you to set the parallax for any range. Say for the guy that shoots his rimfire at 50, 100 and even 200 rds.
There isn't much difference in parallax for most scopes between say 150 yds. and 300 yds. But there is often alot of parallax at 50 yds. when one uses a scope set to be parallax free at 150 yds. There can even be a significantr amount at 25 yds. with one set at 50 yds.
I've never had much luck trying to keep my head centered in the scope to reduce the error induced by parallax. E

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#4812134 - 01/12/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: Eremicus]
avagadro Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 10716
Loc: Tri-Cities, Washington State
Sold right here on the campfire .... enjoy!

VX-II 3-9x33AO (or is that 3x9-33 smile )

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/catalog/p...c2a2f2b843eac4c
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#4812161 - 01/12/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: strosfann]
Poodleshooter Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/09/10
Posts: 527
You're correct that full value parallax won't apply unless your eye is at the far extent of the viewing field of the scope.
However in a hunting scope where shots may be made from odd angles, parallax error can add 1/8-1/4" or so to your groups.
Example: 32mm objective, with a fixed 50yd rimfire parallax adjustment.
at 10yds, you have a max parallax error of 12.8mm (very close to .5")
At 25yds OR 75yds, you have a max parallax error of 8mm (.315")
At 100yds, your max parallax error is 16mm or .646"

Cut those values in half for a realistic "shot around a tree while sitting" shot, and you can evaluate whether or not that works for you.

FWIW, I shoot with a 4x Tasco fixed 50yd parallax scope (an old Tasco with good glass), and a Clearidge 3-9x32mmAO on my .22s. Both are fine scopes.

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#4812265 - 01/12/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: Poodleshooter]
roundoak Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/25/09
Posts: 5831
Loc: Badger State
For several years I had a Bushnell Rangemaster Rimfire Series 4X32mm parallax free 50yds on a Ruger 77/22 and it served me well, but it failed a couple of years ago. Now have a Bushnell Banner 17 Super 3.5-10 x 36mm AO. I like to shoot a lot of paper with the rifle and I could see a positive improvement in groups at 100 yards. For small game I turn it down to 40 yds and that = squirrel pie.
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#4812518 - 01/12/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: strosfann]
1minute Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 16707
Loc: Burns/Hines, Oregon, USA
If one wants to maximize his rifle's potential at a variety of ranges, adjustment is definitely beneficial. Especially for higher magnification scopes working in the near range environment. I do a couple of cases worth of Beldings ground squirrels each spring ranging from 5 to 140 or 150 yds. When youngsters initially emerge, they can be less than an inch wide when standing up. Given less than bench quality rests in the field, I need every advantage I can get so that my favorite rancher will keep buying ammo for me.

For those baby squirrels, I absolutely need at least a 10X scope. It's the difference between simply aiming at a squirrel's body, and trying for dead right there head shots.

Is it required? Absolutely not. But damned well worth it for my uses.


Edited by 1minute (01/13/11)
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#4812619 - 01/12/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: 1minute]
strosfann Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/03/11
Posts: 471
Loc: Tomball, TX
I've done a lot of research and unless there's a few I'm missing it doesn't seem like there is much out there of good value in AO scopes of 40mm or less that aren't overly long for a 20" barreled 22. The VX-II 3-9x33AO seems lik the closest option but in my opinion Leupold is priced about 40% above value across the board so I'm hesitant to spend the $ they want. I may go back and revisit the Weaver/Nitrex line although from what I recall they are some heavyweights.

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#4813151 - 01/13/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: strosfann]
Ella Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/03/07
Posts: 804
Strosfan,
I can tell you that Vortex can not reset the parlx on their 2-7 Viper to rimfire yardage. I had the same idea as you. I'm still using a 2-7 viper on my .22. Wouldn't mind a little more top end mag sometimes at the range. If Poodleshtr knows right, I can deal w. a half inch of field error.

Ella

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#4813437 - 01/13/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: strosfann]
avagadro Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 10716
Loc: Tri-Cities, Washington State
Originally Posted By: strosfann
I've done a lot of research ... but in my opinion Leupold is priced about 40% above value across the board so I'm hesitant to spend the $ they want. ...


I guessing you haven't done the research you think you have. Other than the Simmons 22Mag series (which don't count) who else makes a good small RF sized low-ish magnification AO scope?? Therefore, do understand how Leupold can be 40% overpriced when their the only game in town? Just outta curiosity where does the 40% figure come from?

Its not that I'm a Leupold fanatic ... I just don't understand the basis for your statements. You have a nice rifle ... don't you want nice optics???
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Associate Gypsy
Order of Sleepless Knights

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#4813569 - 01/13/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: avagadro]
Etoh Offline
Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 181
Another thought, will you be dialing in elevation for drop at the longer ranges or using holdover. If using holdover, it will be a parallax problem

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#4813829 - 01/13/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: strosfann]
bcp Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 03/05/05
Posts: 4359
Loc: SW WA
Originally Posted By: strosfann
I've done a lot of research and unless there's a few I'm missing it doesn't seem like there is much out there of good value in AO scopes of 40mm or less that aren't overly long for a 20" barreled 22.


Look at air rifle scopes.

Bruce

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#4814129 - 01/13/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: avagadro]
strosfann Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/03/11
Posts: 471
Loc: Tomball, TX
Originally Posted By: avagadro
Originally Posted By: strosfann
I've done a lot of research ... but in my opinion Leupold is priced about 40% above value across the board so I'm hesitant to spend the $ they want. ...


I guessing you haven't done the research you think you have. Other than the Simmons 22Mag series (which don't count) who else makes a good small RF sized low-ish magnification AO scope?? Therefore, do understand how Leupold can be 40% overpriced when their the only game in town? Just outta curiosity where does the 40% figure come from?

Its not that I'm a Leupold fanatic ... I just don't understand the basis for your statements. You have a nice rifle ... don't you want nice optics???


That was what I meant - there's not much out there. My 40% comment for Leupy is stricly my opinion but it applies to everything they make as far as I'm concerned so them being the only game in town on the VXII in question doesn't really apply. My judgement may be swayed by the fact that I've been able to purchase several Conquests and Vipers in the recent past at prices that make Leupy look even more out of line.

As for the scope I'm searching for I'm beginning to realize that there will be sacrifices in some area or another. Even if I decide to go with the EFR I will be topped out at 9x when 12x or 14x reportedly makes a difference in accuracy potential. I can go with a bigger overall scope but most don't come with a fine reticle.

I'm considering putting on my 4-12x40 AO viper just to see if it looks completely out of place and throws off the handling of the gun. In the meantime I'll continue to search for a smallish AO scope with decent magnification range in case I've missed something.

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#4814182 - 01/13/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: strosfann]
boatammo Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 1761
Loc: eastern MT
The vxII 4x12 with a fine duplex would not be a bad choice. They are not that big and clunky. I have a vxIII 2.5x8 BC on my jackson squirrel rifle and can shoot very good groups with it. The BC ret. has pretty fine aiming points. and works just right at 7 power for 75 and 100 yds. with a 50 yd. sight in.

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#4814702 - 01/13/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: boatammo]
Kimber7man Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 10029
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Try the Vortex Diamondback 2-7 rimfire. Parallax is set at 50 yards from the factory. I put one on my .22 and like it.
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#4814740 - 01/13/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: Kimber7man]
bcraig Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 2924
Loc: eastern arkansas
Its easy to rest the parralax on any Leupold scope yourself.
dont have to send it in to Leupold to do it.
Set it to 50 or 75 yards and forget it.
Buy a used Leupold with the Parralax set at Leupolds standard of 150 yards and try it,if it doesn,t work for you then reset the parralax.
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#4815849 - 01/13/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: bcraig]
BradB Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 295
Loc: WI USA
The Diamondback 4x12x40 ao is a nice rimfire scope

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#4815914 - 01/13/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: strosfann]
drover Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 2695
Loc: Idaho
strosfann,

The short answer is that you are on the right track, for casual paper shooting and small game hunting you do not need AO.

The long answer is that if you wish to shoot the smallest possible groups on paper then you need the AO and maximum magnigication so that you can define your aim-point better. All things being equal the difference in group size between a scope with AO and one without it will be about 1/4" at 50 yards. Past 50 yards there are a lot of other variables that enter into 22 lr rimfire shooting that generally have more effect than parallax.

Without knowing what sort of small game you are speaking of it is a difficult to state definetively that it will not be a problem, but I run a Leupold 3x9 without AO on my Cooper sporter and certainly have no issues with shooting gophers out to 125 yards or so. Parallax is not enough of an issue to cause a miss at the short ranges and the parallax is less of a factor further out.

Another avenue is this - buy a scope marketed as a shotgun scope, they are generally set to be parallax free at 75 or so yards.

drover
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#4817218 - 01/14/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: drover]
Nebraska Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 9828
I'm currently using a Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14x40 side-focus on my 10/22 and like it quite a bit. Surprised nobody's mentioned these as an option....maybe due to the size? Is there something I'm missing?

FWIW - I like red-dots on 22s as well and might even try one of those Vortex Diamondback 2-7 RF on one of my other rimfires.

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#4818942 - 01/14/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: Nebraska]
strosfann Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/03/11
Posts: 471
Loc: Tomball, TX
Thanks for all the input and suggestions.

I'm giving consideration to the Burris Fullfield II 4.5-14x42 AO as they are available at a great saving right now. At 13 inches it isn't overly long but the 18 oz. is a little heavy. This would give me 14x on the top end and the ability to adjust paralax down to 50 yds. I don't forsee a lot of 25yd shooting at paper so this would suffice. I've not handled one of these but I had a 3-9x40 ffii on a 7 mag at one time and recall it to have been pretty good glass for the $. I am still considering the Leupold vxii 3-9x33 AO for about $150 more and it will fit better but will lack the upper end magnification. I just can't help but feel I'd be overpaying for this scope even at $350.

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#4819260 - 01/14/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: strosfann]
Pointbock Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/04/09
Posts: 396
Loc: Chugiak, AK
Try the Clearidge Ultra RM 3-9x32 AO. I have one on a CZ 452. It's about the same size as the Leupold, has very good glass, nice resettable turrets, and comes in different finishes and reticle choices (mine's a gloss w/ duplex dot.) It's price is pretty good, too (<$250.) And it has a lifetime, transferrable warranty.

The 504 is a pretty nice rifle and deserves a scope that matches it in scale and quality.
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#4820146 - 01/14/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: Pointbock]
boomtube Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1491
"Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use?"

Why certainly!

If you're not using an 8-32x50 AO on a rimfire you won't be able to hit a watermelon at 30 yards and your trigger will probably rust.

wink

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#4865717 - 01/26/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: boomtube]
strosfann Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/03/11
Posts: 471
Loc: Tomball, TX
Thanks for all the help. I picked up a Burris Timberline 4.5-14x32 AO with ballistic plex for a really good price that looks like it may fit the bill.

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#4866028 - 01/27/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: Ella]
Bruzer Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 2131
Loc: Georgia Woods
Originally Posted By: Ella
Strosfan,
I can tell you that Vortex can not reset the parlx on their 2-7 Viper to rimfire yardage. I had the same idea as you. I'm still using a 2-7 viper on my .22. Wouldn't mind a little more top end mag sometimes at the range. If Poodleshtr knows right, I can deal w. a half inch of field error.

Ella


Ella,

You can reset the Parallax yourself on that scope based on what I'm seeing from the photo on Cameralands web site. I've done 3 scopes so far myself Simmons,Bushnell and Leupold and it's really simple.

I spoke to Leupold Tech Service and they confirmed I was doing it just like they do and it wouldn't void my warranty.

Robert
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"You can't scare me.........I have kids"



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#4866205 - 01/27/11 Re: Is paralax adjustment required for rimfire use? [Re: Bruzer]
cal74 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 5358
Loc: Zumbrota, MN
See you already picked up a Burris, my .02 cents though...


The Leupold 3-9x33 Rimfire is a nice scope, but spendy and there's seldom a deal on any and if there is they get snatched up immediately.

Another option would be to find an older 3-9x40 with A.O or even a 3.5-10x40 A.O They come up on the market now and than and go reasonably enough. I was lucky enough to find a 3-9x40 A.O on here a few months back for around a 120.00 shipped. Think I did pretty well? smile
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