24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 5 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895
Originally Posted by rattler
with soft pointed bullets your SD figures are [bleep] after hitting the first inch of flesh.....SD figures are great whenfiguring out whats gonna happen to a bullet in flight or a solid once it hits IF it holds its shape.....means very lil once a soft point hits flesh....once flesh is hit bullet construction is 100 times more important than SD.....


A softpoint hitting flesh will change its velocity, it diameter and its mass, all rather quickly...Somebody going to need to be real speedy on a slide rule to keep up with the changing energy and SD figures so calculated...

BP-B2

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 454
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 454
Originally Posted by Pete E
Originally Posted by rattler
with soft pointed bullets your SD figures are [bleep] after hitting the first inch of flesh.....SD figures are great whenfiguring out whats gonna happen to a bullet in flight or a solid once it hits IF it holds its shape.....means very lil once a soft point hits flesh....once flesh is hit bullet construction is 100 times more important than SD.....


A softpoint hitting flesh will change its velocity, it diameter and its mass, all rather quickly...Somebody going to need to be real speedy on a slide rule to keep up with the changing energy and SD figures so calculated...


And with premium bullets of the same construction in the same caliber, in normal big game calibers, the penetration and destructiveness will still be a function of SD and E.

If you choose low SD and low E, or think these make no difference in effectiveness, you're beyond argument.
People can drive poorly constructed bullets at such high velocities that they destruct on impact, but that is something most experienced shooters would strive to stay away from.


[Linked Image] Steve

"He wins the most, who honor saves. Success is not the test"--Ryan

Blog: http://www.baitshopboyz.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=71
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,116
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,116
Reality is a great Fluff Remover..............


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,116
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,116
Originally Posted by SteveG
Originally Posted by Pete E
Originally Posted by rattler
with soft pointed bullets your SD figures are [bleep] after hitting the first inch of flesh.....SD figures are great whenfiguring out whats gonna happen to a bullet in flight or a solid once it hits IF it holds its shape.....means very lil once a soft point hits flesh....once flesh is hit bullet construction is 100 times more important than SD.....


A softpoint hitting flesh will change its velocity, it diameter and its mass, all rather quickly...Somebody going to need to be real speedy on a slide rule to keep up with the changing energy and SD figures so calculated...


And with premium bullets of the same construction in the same caliber, in normal big game calibers, the penetration and destructiveness will still be a function of SD and E.

If you choose low SD and low E, or think these make no difference in effectiveness, you're beyond argument.
People can drive poorly constructed bullets at such high velocities that they destruct on impact, but that is something most experienced shooters would strive to stay away from.


This will be great too.

Please cite as per your findings,from boolits fired in the firsthand on Critters,the relative lineal extrapolation ratios of expansion,as geared towards SD/Energy.

Then we'll get to penetration..................(grin)


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950
R
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
R
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950
It's pretty simple, really. If you take a monolithic .284 bullet, and print out drop and drift tables to 800 yards in a fairly large font, and do the same with a smaller diameter bullet of the same sectional density and then compare both of them to something like a 45/70 405 grain bullet fired at 2000 fps, you should have enough paper to start a fire to roast a weiner at lunch. Eating that weiner will give you enough energy to hunt a little longer.

IC B2

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 454
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 454
Here's Chuck Hawk's take on SD:
The Sectional Density of Rifle Bullets

By Chuck Hawks



Sectional density (SD) is the numerical result of a calculation that compares a bullet's weight to its diameter. To calculate a bullet's sectional density divide the bullet's weight (in pounds) by its diameter (in inches), squared. The higher the SD number the better the SD, and the heavier a bullet is in proportion to its diameter.

SD is important because it has a significant effect on penetration. Other things being equal (like impact velocity, bullet design and material, etc.) the higher the SD number, the better the bullet's penetration. In other words, a skinny bullet of a given weight tends to penetrate better than a fat bullet of the same weight, because it concentrates the same force on a smaller area of the target. For example, if other factors are equal, a 150 grain .270 bullet will penetrate better than a 150 grain .35 caliber bullet.

Penetration is important because the bullet must get well inside an animal to disrupt the functioning of its vital organs. A bullet that fails to penetrate the fur, skin, muscle, and bone necessary to reach the vital organs is very unlikely to bring an animal down.

SD stays the same for all bullets of the same weight in the same caliber--shape does not affect SD. This information is important to remember when comparing rifle bullets.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


[Linked Image] Steve

"He wins the most, who honor saves. Success is not the test"--Ryan

Blog: http://www.baitshopboyz.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=71
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,116
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,116
So much for firsthand accountings.

Laffin'.................


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950
R
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
R
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950
Curious here, being a pretty inexperienced hunter- Say you shoot a a 150 Barnes into a bear, and a 150 grain Ballistic Tip into another identical bear with identical placement, both out of a 270. Now, both these bullets have the same sectional density, would the wound channels be identical?

Fred

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 454
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 454
Originally Posted by Big Stick
So much for firsthand accountings.

Laffin'.................


You apparently don't have enough sense to follow the obvious links regarding my "first-hand accountings". Not that that would change your fine opinion of yourself, or that logic would alter your reasoning. Go get yourself a slap on the back of congratulations, the flyswatter you'll need for the back-slap is probably in the kitchen. grin


[Linked Image] Steve

"He wins the most, who honor saves. Success is not the test"--Ryan

Blog: http://www.baitshopboyz.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=71
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,999
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,999
Originally Posted by SteveG
Here's Chuck Hawk's take on SD:
The Sectional Density of Rifle Bullets

By Chuck Hawks


SD stays the same for all bullets of the same weight in the same caliber--shape does not affect SD.



So what does affect SD? He already said, and some of us know, that diameter compared to length is what determines SD so what something happens, such as entering the hide on the animal, the length vs diameter ratio is changed so SD has to change when this happens. Common sense.

O, who is Chuck Hawks?


The Mayans had it right. If you�re going to predict the future, it�s best to aim far beyond your life expectancy, lest you wind up red-faced in a bunker overstocked with Spam and ammo.


IC B3

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,999
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,999
Originally Posted by Royce
Curious here, being a pretty inexperienced hunter- Say you shoot a a 150 Barnes into a bear, and a 150 grain Ballistic Tip into another identical bear with identical placement, both out of a 270. Now, both these bullets have the same sectional density, would the wound channels be identical?

Fred


No.


The Mayans had it right. If you�re going to predict the future, it�s best to aim far beyond your life expectancy, lest you wind up red-faced in a bunker overstocked with Spam and ammo.


Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950
R
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
R
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950
smile

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,116
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,116
Originally Posted by Royce
Curious here, being a pretty inexperienced hunter- Say you shoot a a 150 Barnes into a bear, and a 150 grain Ballistic Tip into another identical bear with identical placement, both out of a 270. Now, both these bullets have the same sectional density, would the wound channels be identical?

Fred


NBT's are amongst the best ways,to arrange Critters leaving the area under their own power.

If you like to track,NBT's is your Huckleberry................


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,116
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,116
Originally Posted by SteveG
Originally Posted by Big Stick
So much for firsthand accountings.

Laffin'.................


You apparently don't have enough sense to follow the obvious links regarding my "first-hand accountings". Not that that would change your fine opinion of yourself, or that logic would alter your reasoning. Go get yourself a slap on the back of congratulations, the flyswatter you'll need for the back-slap is probably in the kitchen. grin


You'd have to quote Jeff-O,to top the quoting of Hawks..................




Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
S
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
S
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Originally Posted by Big Stick


NBT's are amongst the best ways,to arrange Critters leaving the area under their own power.

If you like to track,NBT's is your Huckleberry................


Damn! This makes twice in one week we agree 100%. What is the world coming to. grin


The first time I shot myself in the head...

Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 85,981
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 85,981
An end! smile


If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli

American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
S
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
S
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
grin


The first time I shot myself in the head...

Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950
R
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
R
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950
Actually, having shot one or two critters with a Barnes, and one or two with Ballistic Tips, I kinda knew the answer before I asked the question. I was getting at the point that sectional density is not a good predictor of terminal bullet performance.
Fred

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
S
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
S
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Somehow, even with the pain meds I knew that. If you didn't already know you would not have asked the question.

Some of us here do have IQs in double digits. wink


The first time I shot myself in the head...

Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950
R
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
R
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950
smile

Page 5 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
104 members (160user, 10Glocks, 308ld, 338reddog, 257_X_50, 10gaugemag, 11 invisible), 1,673 guests, and 753 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,728
Posts18,400,775
Members73,822
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.257s Queries: 14 (0.002s) Memory: 0.9024 MB (Peak: 1.0456 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-29 09:17:47 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS