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Any round from .375 H&H on up would zip right through the toughest body armor made right now. I'm sure something could be made that would stop a big bore, but the weight would be so much that it would impractical to wear. Plus, there's not a whole lot of taliban muzzies shooting 416 Rigbys.

Body armor is made for small arms and frag, it's not capable of stopping big bore hunting rounds.


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I read that, during the "Rodney King" riots in LA some years ago, the people at the Weatherby store (in South Gate?) got up on the roof with a .460 with solids with the idea of shooting the engine on any car that tried to smash through the front iron gatework. I don't think they actually had the opportunity to try it.

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Originally Posted by Homesteader
Safariman - you don't mix your tungsten #4 buck with either a "kyptonite" or depleted uranium buffer - do you? Just askin. Homesteader.


How did you know? Been sleepin with my gal Lois? smile

Actually, these are marketed by the hevi shot co as "Dead Coyote" rounds. They, ummmmm... work!


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About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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Originally Posted by Homesteader
Polska - even if the safari rifle round didn't penetrate the body armor most likely the sheer blunt force trauma from impact would take its toll. Just pure speculation on my part. Homesteader.


Your actually right, I saw some pics online, i'll see if I can find them i'll post them here or send them toyou, of a guy who tested type III body armor with various pistols, rifles, etc. and he put it in front of this hard clay like material. I can say that it stopped a 12 gauge rifled slug but the hole in the clay looked the size of a small basketball. So if a slug did that I can imagine the impact would atleast knock the assailant off his feet and atleast break a few ribs.


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Originally Posted by paul375

Ive seen .416rby 400gr Barns solids go through 1/2" steel plate and it looks like its been done with a drill press.

I wouldn't worry about disater scenario's. The chances are if it did happen you wouldn't have you rifle any way.
Stay of the processed food, eat more fresh fruit and have a good nights sleep. You will be fine.


Haha I know, I just like to ponder and prepare for worst case scenarios. I like to know what my weapons or potential weapons are capable of.


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Originally Posted by safariman
Yes, a 416Rgiby with solids will blow through body armour, but so will a 22 MAgnum, especially with commonly available FMJ ammo. Let us hope - and pray - that we never have to test such in a major crisis situation. For an armed intruder wearing body armour, my shotgun is loaded with tungsten #4 buck. HAve not tested it yet, but beleive the small diameter of the #4 with the roundness and hardness and great weight/momentum of the tungsen alloy shot would be able to penetrate the armour and make a real mees of the perp. Don't want to test THAT theory either, unless someone has an old Kevlar vest they want to donate for testing whilst it is on a mannequin. Hmmmmm, I smell a test project coming on here.....


It just made me think those bank robbers in LA who had ak's and body armor. Just makes me wonder what a real determined crook could do, or al queda terrorist, if they really wanted too. Their are hundreds of sleeper cells in this country, and at one phone call from Bin Laden or Al Zawahri or these other guys and they will all march out with ak 47's through residential areas and IED's, probably wearing body armor. Just something to ponder about. Well even if your Buck doesn't pass thru, the impact would be enough to knock them down to the ground and break a rib or too, which would buy enough time for a follow up shot in a vital area.

Last edited by Polska; 02/05/11.

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Originally Posted by jkingrph
A few years back, my ex brother and law and I fired my .458 Win Mag. loaded with a Barnes hollowpoint, either 400 or 450 gr, can't remember, at a piece of 5/8" boiler plate. Now I know that is not armor, but it not only penetrated cleanly but actually engraved the rifleing pattern from the gun into the hole it punched.

I would not want to be behind any body armor that thing hit.


damn thats impressive. it'll definately go thru then, even the higher rated armor. Even if it didn't it would do some serious damage, probably break a lot of ribs


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Originally Posted by wildhobbybobby
"Hard" body armor contains one or more hard plates carried in a Kevlar garment. The hard plate is normally made of high tech ceramic material, although some older plates could be made of AR500 armor steel. Steel plates in hard body armor are obsolete these days because of their excessive weight. The hard plates normally cover the front and rear of the torso only. There are some exotic armors such as Dragon Skin that have dozens of small overlapping hard plates that give wider coverage.

If a bullet misses the hard plate and hits only the Kevlar garment, it is encountering only soft body armor and will behave accordingly.

The primary mechanism by which bullets penetrate hard or soft armor is velocity, with bullet construction coming in second. A small, soft bullet travelling at 4,000 fps is more likely to penetrate hard body armor than a large solid bullet at 2,000 fps. Ceramic plates are lighter than steel, but can be brittle and may not withstand multiple hits.

Soft body armor normally stops projectiles that travel no faster than about 1,500 fps. Some AP bullets will do the trick at lower velocities, and some large bore projectiles such as shotgun slugs will be stopped by soft armor at somewhat higher velocities.

I have personally fired .22 RF Magnum rifle bullets (at about 1,800 fps) that went through soft body armor that contained 18 layers of Kevlar, and then fired 12 gauge Foster type slugs at the same armor and had the slugs stopped by the vest.

Soft body armor can be easily penetrated by sharp objects such as knives, but is useful against slashing attacks. There is special soft body armor that contains a mesh that does protect against edged weapons.

I have fired several arrows from compound bows at soft body armor and have never gotten a penetration, but I don't doubt that it could happen with certain razor style broadheads. Also, I have never heard of a documented case where someone was killed by blunt trauma from a vest that stopped a bullet. I would be interested in learning of any authentic cases. I am not claiming that blunt trauma cannot cause injury such as bruising or even a cracked rib, but I've never heard of a documented death.

I have 1/2" and 5/8" AR500 steel targets on my range at camp and have never had a .458 Winchester Magnum 500 gr. bullet do more than scratch the surface of the plates. However I will not fire my .220 Swift at those same plates at less than 200 yards for fear of penetrating or damaging them.

The ability of hard plates and armor steel to stop bullets varies with the angle of the impact and whether the plate can move when struck. The greater the angle and the more the plate can move or swing when hit, the better it will stop the bullet. These principles also apply to soft body armor.

Mild steel is another story. Lots of bullets that penetrate soft boiler plate will be stopped cold by a thinner sheet of genuine armor steel.


Thanks for the elaborate response. I'm not worried about soft armor, I was wondering if it could go thru hard armor.. the one designed to stop .308's , 5.56's, ak's, and 30-06's. I have a questions if you don't mind. Now is the ceramic plate better at stopping bullets then steel, or do they just use it because it's cheaper and lighter? Also, does the ceramic plates absorb the shock as well as steel? I can imagine that bullets just bounce off of steel while ceramic cracks and absorbs the bullet created more shock to the wearer. Also, would a terrorist like say al queda or some of these other scumags, practically they would probably get the softer armor or the harder armor? I mean i can't imagine them getting hard armor just because of the costs and weight, but at the same time, no one imagined they coudl fly a plane into the world trade center


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Originally Posted by gohip
Todays hard armor is ceramic. It can only take a hit, maybe two before it is no longer reliable. I think a big bore would just shatter this plate, possibly penetrate and definately cause internal bleading. My 416 rigby will punch tenisball size holes in 2" concrete, so I hink that ceramic plate would be toast after the first shot.
When I was deployed, quiet a few people had to get replacement plates because they would drop them and they would crack.

It would be interesting to see them test a safari rifle on the new dragon skin armor.


that would definately be a good way to test it haha. Thats my feeling too, I think the ceramic would shatter and even if it didn't penetrate who ever is wearing that would get some broken ribs, allowing enough time to get a follow up shot in a vital area.


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Originally Posted by wildhobbybobby
The incident (known as the North Hollywood Shootout) occurred in February of 1997 (14 summers ago...time sure does fly, doesn't it?). The LA police did borrow some AR-15's from a local gun store, but the fight was over by the time they arrived on scene. One bad guy was taken out by arriving SWAT personnel who used department issued AR-15's, and the other committed suicide with a handgun after his long gun malfunctioned.


thats exactly what got me thinking about all this.. if some crook did that again, or even worse if al queda did that here at home.


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Originally Posted by doubledown
I have a steel target made of AR500 steel (its .400 thick) that I use quite a bit at the range. I bought it after a friend of mine let me shoot at his with my 6.5-284 @ 100 yards. I was launching 139 grain Lapua Scenars @ 3100fps and did'nt even make a dimple you could feel with your finger!


I shot this plate with hundreds of .308 fmj, not a scratch. So one day I thought I would see if I could penetrate this thing. First I shot it with a .375 H&H Magnum, 235's @ 2900 nothing, 270's @ 2600, slight mark but not a dent!


Next ,458 Lott with 350 grain Sierra JHP @ 2600fps left a mark, then the 500 grain Hornady FMJ, slight dimple, that was it. Then I tried some of the 350 grain Sierra JHP max loaded to 2700fps...they went right through the plate, I thought it was a fluke so I shot the plate again, right through! at 2600 no dice but at 2700fps the 350 went right through.


Then I wanted to see what my .500 Jeffery with 600 grain Woodleigh PP Max loaded @ 2400+fps would do. At the shot the plate went flying but the big slug did not penetrate the plate, though it left a giant golf ball size dent that pushed a good half inch into the back of the plate!


Bullet testing has always been interesting to me, but it often leaves me with more questions than answers.


interesting. It seems like the weatherby rifles would be good for this task. say a 416 weatherby or a 378 weatherby or 338 weatherby


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Safariman - Oh, thank goodness...for a while there thought I'd need a protective suit to shoot those #4's. Didn't want to "glow in the dark" and become a nite-lite. LOL. BTW - say "HI" to Lois for me. Homesteader.

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Polska - All the "Excedrin" in the world wouldn't relieve the head/body aches received IF I were hit by a safari rifle round wearing body armor. If it penetrates I'm screwed, if it don't I'm so battered and bruised (possibly killed anyway)
I'm screwed...a NO WIN situation anyway you slice it. How do you say "Rigby" in Taliban-ese? Homesteader.

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There is no such thing as true bullet proof body armor or bullet proof glass.

They are manufactured as a temporary deterent/deflector if You happen to be lucky that day.

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Last edited by gunner500; 02/05/11.

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IT should be advertised as handgun proof, not including 5.7 or 22 MAgnum handguns which I am told will penetrate and kill anyway due to the small diameter and high speed of those rounds. Again, I have NOT tested this theory or so called ' knowledge ' and it may be a gunners tale but have heard it and read it more than once. Again, I smell a testing coming on here.

Interesting topic and lots of fun intel and ideas coming to light in this thread. Anyone know where I can get my hands on some used body armor? I am not kidding here I really DO want to run some tests and report back. MARK


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Originally Posted by safariman
IT should be advertised as handgun proof, not including 5.7 or 22 MAgnum handguns which I am told will penetrate and kill anyway due to the small diameter and high speed of those rounds. Again, I have NOT tested this theory or so called ' knowledge ' and it may be a gunners tale but have heard it and read it more than once. Again, I smell a testing coming on here.

Interesting topic and lots of fun intel and ideas coming to light in this thread. Anyone know where I can get my hands on some used body armor? I am not kidding here I really DO want to run some tests and report back. MARK


thats awesome. Maybe you could contact a body armor company and they'll let you do one for free. i'm sure they'd be interested in the results. Your gonna need to get a variety, first the softer, and then the harder ones meant to stop ak's, ar's, 308's, and I believe there is one level for vests that can stop a 30-06 travelling at 2800 fps w/ a 180 grain bullet. there are like 3 or 4 different levels and each level is rated for different weapons.


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Gunner - "There is no such thing as true bullet proof body armor or bullet proof glass." What you're saying is all this "stuff" just might slow a round down a tad...make it hurt a little less?
Homesteader.


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Several years I had the opportunity to shoot at bullet proof glass. We had two types of glass. One had 3 layers and was a out 3/4" thick. The other piece had 5 layers and was about 1.25" thick. The thicker glass was higher quality and for use in banks and so on. Both pieces were about 4 foot by 3 foot in size.

The loads I had were a 223 with 55 grain soft point, 308 with Australian FMJ military and 144 grains and 375 loaded with 300 grain Sierra and some older Remington 300 grain steel jacketed FMJs

The 3/4" glass stopped the 223 but I would not like to have been standing behind it, you would have need glasses. The 308 went through and embedded in an 8" tree we had the glass leaning against.

The 5 layer stopped the 223 completely. You have put your face and inch from the glass and without waeing glasses. The 308 militaty 144 grain FMJ was stopped and if you were wearing glasses you would have been OK standing behind it. In fact the 308 on the 5 layer high quality glass was similar to the 223 on the 3 layer lower quality glass.

The 5 layer glass stopped the 300 grain Sierra from the 375 but you would be in trouble if you face was behind the glass and even if you has been wearing glasses. The 300 grain steel jacketed FMJ went through the 5 layer glass and also the 8" tree behind the glass.




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There are different levels of body armor. Anything that would stop a big bore with solids would make you look like the Sta puff marshmellow man.


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Mike378 - your post pretty well tells me what would happen to an engine block vs. "solids". You've some interesting targets to shoot at. Regards, Homesteader.

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