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#4944737 - 02/16/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: Loggah]
PeterCartwright Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/15/06
Posts: 256
Those who grouse about a buying a Japanese made rifle might want to look at their work first. The finest made rifle (and THE most accurate) I've ever owned was a Weatherby Mk.V (Japanese manufactured) .270 WM. I won't even tell you how well that gun shot for fear of being ridiculed. Fit and finish were absolutely superb. If I had an extra $1,500 lay'n around in my gun budget, I'd buy one of those '71s in a heart beat.

PC

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#4944804 - 02/16/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: PeterCartwright]
Loggah Online   content
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 7142
Loc: new hampshire
Peter, Nothing wrong with a japanese rifle for a hunting rifle,my point is an original Winchester 71 will not only shoot well, but it will retain its value as an investment also. Don

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#4945271 - 02/16/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: Loggah]
Savage_99 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 13627
There is no pride, common sense or logic to buy a jap made gun. They have helped put many of our manufactures out of business and this is after starting World War Two, killing, maiming and torturing untold numbers of innocent woman, children and men.

_________________________
That a rifle stay sighted in is now my most critical demand. I keep a record of it and fire a second confirming shot when wanted.

Groups are for target rifles. My target rifles must shoot small groups.

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#4947027 - 02/17/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: Savage_99]
Ranch13 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/12/03
Posts: 3933
Loc: wyoming
Originally Posted By: Savage_99
There is no pride, common sense or logic to buy a jap made gun. They have helped put many of our manufactures out of business and this is after starting World War Two, killing, maiming and torturing untold numbers of innocent woman, children and men.



Yup and lets all stand up and cheer for what the United States Government did for the Native peoples of the North American continent. It was so wonderful the way those Indians were treated....
Sheesh don't look at the sticker on the backside of your computer.
_________________________
the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.

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#4947088 - 02/17/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: Ranch13]
cal74 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 5360
Loc: Zumbrota, MN
Originally Posted By: Ranch13
Yup and lets all stand up and cheer for what the United States Government did for the Native peoples of the North American continent. It was so wonderful the way those Indians were treated....
Sheesh don't look at the sticker on the backside of your computer.



Getting way off topic, but what else is new around here? Fact is the White man didn't do anything to the American Indians or the Africans that their own people didn't do to them first. (Slavery, wars, pushing one tribe off of certain land, etc.)

Back to the point, I'd rather have an original as well. Hopefully one of these days I will...
_________________________
Life is just one damned thing after another

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#4947094 - 02/17/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: Savage_99]
Whelenman Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 7049
Loc: The town Del Shannon made famo...
Originally Posted By: Savage_99
There is no pride, common sense or logic to buy a jap made gun. They have helped put many of our manufactures out of business and this is after starting World War Two, killing, maiming and torturing untold numbers of innocent woman, children and men.




Or car, or truck!
_________________________
Well we're Green and we're Gold, and we play better when it's cold. All us Cheese heads have our favorite superstar. We love Brett Favre.

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#4948868 - 02/17/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: cal74]
Ranch13 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/12/03
Posts: 3933
Loc: wyoming
Originally Posted By: cal74
[Getting way off topic, ...


Take it up with Savage 99 he's twice in this thread shown he's a dumbass and don't know history or know Germany started World War 2.
_________________________
the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.

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#4959314 - 02/20/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: Savage_99]
Mak Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 513
The Japs attacked Pearl Harbor in 1941. By this time WW2 had been going on since 1939. Here's the kicker, our people had broken the Japanese code, and were monitoring their communications. The only people surprised by Pearl Harbor were the the poor dumb bastards sacrificed so Americans would be pissed enough to go to war.
Previous to this event, America suspended sales of scrap metal to Japan. Japan, having little in the way of steel manufacturing, was heavily dependent upon those sales. Analysts knew it would pressure the Island nation.
Wake was another giveaway. The Japs had their hands full with the spirited defense put up by the small American garrison, but the brass, and the navy, decided to let them hang.
Lots of Americans were killed by the Japanese in WW2. How many of these deaths happened because of strategic choices made by American high command? Most, if not all.
A soldier cannot decide their fate, they do as they are ordered to do, even if these orders mean they will be sacrificed, and killed.
By the way, the same holds true for the Japs.
Our manufacturing has been off shored because the geniuses who run manufacturing care more about their own profit than the well being of their country. It just so happens that they have bought American politicians to make it all happen.
I'm not happy that most of the Winchester offerings are imports, but the truth is that these imports really are well made, well functioning examples.
Miroku uses premium steel, and their fit and finish is very well executed.
No, these will never match the craftsmanship of the real Winchester 71 made by Americans hands, but then those hands are long gone, as is the factory they were made in.

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#4967660 - 02/22/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: Mak]
Tonk Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 3090
Loc: Chicago, Ill.
The people who run our land, in the USA have let Japan and others buy up realistate and let manufacturers move plants out of our country to Japan (Steel Industry back in the mid 70's) We purchase more than you think from those countries. Just don't ever forget Dec. 7 1941 and remember their sacrifice!

Nowdays try buying something with a tag on it that says made in the USA!
_________________________
Thank Our Veterans!
GOD Bless Them All

UNIONS BUILDING AMERICA, SALUTE ALL THE UNION TRADESMAN


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#4968174 - 02/22/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: Mak]
jorgeI Online   content
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 24425
Loc: Orange Park, Florida
Originally Posted By: Mak
The Japs attacked Pearl Harbor in 1941. By this time WW2 had been going on since 1939. Here's the kicker, our people had broken the Japanese code, and were monitoring their communications. The only people surprised by Pearl Harbor were the the poor dumb bastards sacrificed so Americans would be pissed enough to go to war.

Historical urban legend at it's worst. We were decoding about one word in ten all the way through 1942. While I'll agree we should have seen this coming we did not have their codes broken to the extent it would have given us a date certain for the attack. The only thing we knew for sure was about twelve hours before the attack when the jap embassy was told to destroy all their encoding gear. At Wake Island the Navy had indeed launched a relief force but when Major Deveraux sent out a very poorly worded message "situation still in doubt" and nothing else, CINCPAC though they were on the verge of losing and with only one operational carrier at the time, we pulled back. I can't fault you for not buying jap stuff, no problem at all, but your historical perspective is totally off the mark.
%
_________________________
Originally Posted By JoeBob
I don't need a genealogy lesson from a Cuban mustefino who caught a ride over on a leaky 1957 Chevy that used milk jugs for floats.
Of course, I do have some lettuce that needs to be picked if you are interested.

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#4968442 - 02/22/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: Ranch13]
257STEW Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 441
Loc: northwest British Columbia
Originally Posted By: Ranch13
Originally Posted By: cal74
[Getting way off topic, ...


Take it up with Savage 99 he's twice in this thread shown he's a dumbass and don't know history or know Germany started World War 2.



Germany started the war....but Japan brought the US into the war.. it all started for the US when Japan attacked, so to some people of the US may view Japan as "Starting" the war and they are not totally incorrect.

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#4977221 - 02/24/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: 257STEW]
saddlesore Online   content
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 11627
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
My son inherited an original 71 from my ex father in law. He sold it for $150 to raise money for a down payment on his house.
_________________________
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles

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#4977380 - 02/24/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: saddlesore]
257STEW Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 441
Loc: northwest British Columbia
Wish i could come across a deal like that!!! $150...next you will tell us it was like new.....

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#4977581 - 02/24/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: Mak]
8mmwapiti Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 792
Loc: Saint Maries ID USA
Originally Posted By: Mak
The Japs attacked Pearl Harbor in 1941. By this time WW2 had been going on since 1939. Here's the kicker, our people had broken the Japanese code, and were monitoring their communications. The only people surprised by Pearl Harbor were the the poor dumb bastards sacrificed so Americans would be pissed enough to go to war.
Previous to this event, America suspended sales of scrap metal to Japan. Japan, having little in the way of steel manufacturing, was heavily dependent upon those sales. Analysts knew it would pressure the Island nation.
Wake was another giveaway. The Japs had their hands full with the spirited defense put up by the small American garrison, but the brass, and the navy, decided to let them hang.
Lots of Americans were killed by the Japanese in WW2. How many of these deaths happened because of strategic choices made by American high command? Most, if not all.
A soldier cannot decide their fate, they do as they are ordered to do, even if these orders mean they will be sacrificed, and killed.
By the way, the same holds true for the Japs.
Our manufacturing has been off shored because the geniuses who run manufacturing care more about their own profit than the well being of their country. It just so happens that they have bought American politicians to make it all happen.
I'm not happy that most of the Winchester offerings are imports, but the truth is that these imports really are well made, well functioning examples.
Miroku uses premium steel, and their fit and finish is very well executed.
No, these will never match the craftsmanship of the real Winchester 71 made by Americans hands, but then those hands are long gone, as is the factory they were made in.



If you want to recite ww 2 history you may want to look at September 1931. Look at the entire war not just the part that makes your personal point.

8mmwapiti

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#4978515 - 02/25/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: 8mmwapiti]
Mak Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 513
It is accepted history that the Japanese code was broken before the Pearl Harbor attack. WW2 began in 1939, NOT 1931. If you want to be a smart ass, at least your dates correct.

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#4978698 - 02/25/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: Mak]
8mmwapiti Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 792
Loc: Saint Maries ID USA
Originally Posted By: Mak
It is accepted history that the Japanese code was broken before the Pearl Harbor attack. WW2 began in 1939, NOT 1931. If you want to be a smart ass, at least your dates correct.


In September 1931 the Japanese invaded Manchuria and China and approximately 20 million Chinese died by the end of ww 2. But to some I have to conclude you are among them dead Chinese do not count.

And many on the fire would appreciated it (I am one of the many) if you could keep the discussion civil and not resort to the juvenile use of profanity and name calling.

8mmwapiti

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#4978870 - 02/25/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: 8mmwapiti]
North61 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 1139
Loc: Yukon, Canada
I have a Japanese 1895 in 405. It's a very nicely made rifle. I am tempted by the 71. The run of 92's is tempting too.

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#4978943 - 02/25/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: North61]
Spotshooter Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 11682
Levers cool but I don't like the cartridge all that much
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Spot shooter

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#4979246 - 02/25/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: Spotshooter]
Mak Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 513
WW2 did not start with the Japanese invasion of China. WW2 started with the Nazi invasion of Poland, in 1939.
Why?
Allied powers delivered an ultimatum to Hitler to cease his aggression, or to find his Germany at war. Hitler called their bluff, and lost.
It has nothing to do with my opinion of the relative value of Chinese casualties, it has to do with the time when the allies became officially embroiled in the war.
The Japanese invasion of China did little, if anything to precipitate the declaration of war. It was the attack carried out at Pearl Harbor that drew the US into the war. The actual "urban legend" is that the Japanese code was broken shortly before the attack, but due to radio silence, the whereabouts of the imperial fleet were unknown. It was merely a happy coincidence that the carriers were sent out on "maneuvers".
However, information has come to light that radio silence was not followed, and that the imperial fleet engaged in repeated communications on the lead up to the attack. Further, it seems that the code was broken months before the attack. It may be possible to declare innocence of the top brass based on some incompetence within US intelligence spheres, however, this ignores the evidence of deliberate egging on of Imperial Japan.
Personally, my view of the Japanese invasion of China was that it resulted in the atmosphere that created Mao, who was one of the most brutal dictators ever to hold office, anywhere.

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#4980366 - 02/25/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: Mak]
8mmwapiti Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 792
Loc: Saint Maries ID USA
MAK,

My point is that the trade embargo ( "deliberate egging on of Imperial Japan") was put in place because of Japanese aggregations as in arming far beyond agreements and the invasion and brutal occupation of China. To do nothing would have been to supply the Japanese with the materials to continue. Not a good choice either. So to say that the invasion of China had little to do with ww 2 but to blame the embargo for contributing to it makes the assumption that the embargo was put in place for no reason at all. Japan chose to invade China, Japan chose to respond to the embargo with an attack. It was not a "world war" in 1931 but the invasion of China was war, and it was the beginning of what would turn into "world war".

FDR was in a very bad position. Knowing we (the USA) had to get into the war but needing to get Russia in first (Stalin would have likely stood by on the sidelines waiting until the rest of the world was on its knees and then had his way) or the outcome might not have been good (for our side) and not wanting to be the bad guy that got us into the war (people tend to give credit for a save but not for prevention) FDR at least wanted if not needed something to galvanize American public opinion.

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#4981141 - 02/25/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: 8mmwapiti]
Mak Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 513
Point well taken.
China in the '30's was an economic interest to the US, and Japan's invasion certainly did damage to that situation. US/ China ties were certainly close, especially when one considers the continuous US military presence there-after all, the so-called "paper tigers", who later received fame as the "Flying Tigers" were US airmen who used the outclassed P-40 to take on the imperial air force-successfully, due to their innovative tactics.
Thus, the embargo could well be understood on your terms.
Yes, FDR was unable to position America to accept war, and the dark reality was that Japan and Germany were moving toward world domination. The strategic picture was that US interests, and possibly even the US itself, was endangered by these military actions.
Stalin showed no interest in helping anyone but himself. His strategy seems to have been to play very few cards. However, operation Barbarosa in the summer of 1941 changed all that, and Russia had their hands full dealing with the Nazi invasion, months before the attack on Pearl.
One more tidbit, in 1939, two years before Pearl Harbor, FDR issued an executive order that criminalized mining for anything other than "war materials".
By the time 1941 rolled around, the mining industry was entirely focused on providing lead, antimony, zinc, copper, etc.
The case has been made by several historians that FDR took the country to war both due to axis pressures, and to escape the depression, which stubbornly lingered.
It was the unmatched industrial might of America that switched into high gear with wartime production. This production, it has been successfully argued, is responsible for pulling the nation out of the hole.
Today, this production has been hollowed out, by manufacturers, politicians, and banksters. Thus, the new 71. I'm certain it is a fine rifle. I've had some association with Miroku guns, and they are quite good. While I have yet to handle the new 71, it is doubtless worth the money, yet not one penny goes to American craftsmen, or American industrial capacity.

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#4987006 - 02/27/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: Savage_99]
Bricktop Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 7422
Loc: With your mother.....
Originally Posted By: Savage_99
There is no pride, common sense or logic to buy a jap made gun.
Who gives a f*ck what you think? No one asked your dumb, f*cking ass to shell out any money for a Jap-made "Winchester" and no one's asking now.

I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure this thread started with someone pointing out that Browning/USRAC is marketing a Winchester-branded rifle as a Model 71. I'm not for sure, but I think that's how the thread began. It wasn't a call for your ignorant-ass opinion in mangled "engrish." And trust me when I state NO ONE GIVES A F*CK WHAT YOU THINK.

You may now go back to posting the obvious, inane, and generally half-assed opinions on Ruger No. 1s, Mannlichers, and other sh*t on which you've commented that has made everyone roll their eyes.
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I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum.

Originally Posted By safariman
I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person.

Originally Posted By Fireball2
The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.

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#4987164 - 02/27/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: Bricktop]
Whitebird Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 08/20/09
Posts: 730
Back to the '71. Don't need a new one... got an old one.

First year production deluxe model.


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#4997509 - 03/02/11 Re: Winchester Re-Introduces The .348 Model 71 [Re: Whitebird]
Mak Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 513
Hey, Whitebird, want to trade for a nice Browning?

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