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Originally Posted by Homesteader
Gunner - "There is no such thing as true bullet proof body armor or bullet proof glass." What you're saying is all this "stuff" just might slow a round down a tad...make it hurt a little less?
Homesteader.

Yes Homesteader, some of the products listed above will save You from a crack head from the hood, But will most definatley not from a determined adversary.
Regretably without going into to much detail I have put over the counter premium hunting bullets thru every sheet of laminated bullet proof glass they have sent me, up tp 2" in thickness. and all body armor from the 2nd chance series on up.
I concluded there is bullet resistant glass, but under certain circumstances no bullet proof glass, same for the body wear.

Gunner


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Odd thing happened up in the Swan Valley back in the 90s. A anti-government nut-job shot a sheriffs deputy with a 41 magnum. The bullet didn't penetrate, but the bullet bent one point of the deputy's badge back into the vest causing it to penetrate the vest and sticking him in the chest.

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With ceramic plates installed, I doubt it would penetrate. I doubt the wearer would get up after being shot, either. I have shot railroad backer plate at 100 yds. with 375 and 458 heavy FMJ and soft points. 7.62 NATO penetrates more, 5.56 about as much, and 50 BMG goes through and keeps going so far you don't have the energy to retrieve it. On a hard target, there is an advantage to having a smaller-diameter meplat projectile and higher velocity--less area to disperse the force.

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I think a 416 of any flavor with the 400 gr Barnes Monlithic Soilds is a good SHTF gun.It will serve in many different areas you never thought of.It will open locked gates ,stop cars,open doors and many other wonderful uses.The 416 Rem mag or ruger,remington or Weatherby are good tools to have when the tough gets going!!!!!

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dgr416 - when I purchased another .458 Winchester I said to my lovely wife "you never know when a rogue garbage truck will endanger the neighborhood" Regards, Homesteader.

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My guess is an armor piercing bullet out of a 30-06 will penetrate armor better than a solid from my 500 Jeffery. Of course the Jeffery might push the vest well into someone's chest, be kinda painful. If I was looking for penetration from an African rifle caliber, I'd shoot a 350g .375 caliber solid out of a 375 or 378 Weatherby. Of course the 50 BMG with the right bullets was built for just that application.


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I too like to test ammunition against hard objects. I have a piece of rail road track about a foot long, and also a backing plate that the rail sits on, on the tie.

One thing I have found is that speed kills. The faster bullets always penetrate deeper. A .458 Win. will knock it about 20 feet and penetrate about half way. A 7mm Wby will punch a hole all the way through. A .270 Win. makes a dimple. A .44 Mag. does not even make a dimple. A .30-06 will make a crater, but not penetrate all the way. A .300 Win. and and .300 Wby. will make a deeper crater, but not go all the way through.

I have a .300 RUM but have never tried it.

The 7 MM is the only once that gave complete penetration.

I have never tried any fast .22s or .24s or .25s, but I would guess that the faster the bullet, the deeper the crater.

Odd, but the 7mm did not actually penetrate. It knocked a plug out of the steel, about 1/2 inch in dia. It also had the rifling marks inside the hole it left, and also on the plug it knocked out. I found the plug about a foot beyond the steel.

My opinion is that body armour would not be effective with a rifle bullet traveling 3000 FPS or more. Perhaps not even that fast.

What if the attacker is standing behind a large tree and shooting at you? I have found that .30-06 FMJ military will penetrate a pretty large tree.

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In south africa, .375 H&H rifles shooting solids have been used time and again for robberies on Cash in transit heists. The shooter killing the driver through the 2" armoured glass. I'd guess that Any big bore game rifle .375> will shoot through body armour!

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Originally Posted by 1234567
I too like to test ammunition against hard objects. I have a piece of rail road track about a foot long, and also a backing plate that the rail sits on, on the tie.

One thing I have found is that speed kills. The faster bullets always penetrate deeper. A .458 Win. will knock it about 20 feet and penetrate about half way. A 7mm Wby will punch a hole all the way through. A .270 Win. makes a dimple. A .44 Mag. does not even make a dimple. A .30-06 will make a crater, but not penetrate all the way. A .300 Win. and and .300 Wby. will make a deeper crater, but not go all the way through.

I have a .300 RUM but have never tried it.

The 7 MM is the only once that gave complete penetration.

I have never tried any fast .22s or .24s or .25s, but I would guess that the faster the bullet, the deeper the crater.

Odd, but the 7mm did not actually penetrate. It knocked a plug out of the steel, about 1/2 inch in dia. It also had the rifling marks inside the hole it left, and also on the plug it knocked out. I found the plug about a foot beyond the steel.

My opinion is that body armour would not be effective with a rifle bullet traveling 3000 FPS or more. Perhaps not even that fast.

What if the attacker is standing behind a large tree and shooting at you? I have found that .30-06 FMJ military will penetrate a pretty large tree.


Sorry - speed in and of itself does not kill. The only thing that kills is cessation of oxygen flow to the brain via CNS shutdown through whatever means. With bullets that is accomplished by tissue damage rendering said systems non-functioning.

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"Sorry - speed in and of itself does not kill. The only thing that kills is cessation of oxygen flow to the brain via CNS shutdown through whatever means. With bullets that is accomplished by tissue damage rendering said systems non-functioning."

I was actually talking about a fast bullet will more than likely penetrate steel better than a slow, heavy bullet. I was not talking about tissue damage in game animals.

It has been my experience that high velocity bullets penetrate deeper into steel than the slower bullets.

But, since you mentioned it, an expanding, fast bullet of adequate weight will do a good job of tissue destruction, too.

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I may have misread part of your post and sorry if I did. Regarding my experience with bullets I have never been highly appreciative of faste bullets mainly because I have seen so much damage rendering useless lots of meat. On the other hand, I have always bene impressed by a slower, heavier bullet and what it can do.

But that's what makes horse races, eh?

Jeff

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"I may have misread part of your post and sorry if I did."

No harm. I meant 'speed kills' steel plates. I used to shoot a lot of steel plates with anything I had. I found that it was mainly very high speeds that would come closest to penetrating steel, either soft or hard.

You're correct. Destruction of major organs is what kills, regardless of fast or slow.

In my answer, the way I answered was not intended to be be-littling or sarcastic, but here lately, many of my posts have been taken as such. I meant no offence.

There were some posts a few days ago about some experiments performed by P.O. Ackley, using the .220 Swift. According to the post, P.O. found the .220 to be devasting on deer size animals, and that it would also do a number on hard steel, too.

I don't know how to the threads, but if some one can post a link, you might find the information interesting.

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seems like it's all good.

cheers.

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There is always a head above an amoured chest...


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CMG - you've nailed it! That's what all the experts have said about big bore rifles...shot placement is key. IF you can hit the CNS consistently then body armor is of no concern. BUT how many of us can do that??? Homesteader.

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I know that my .416-REM in a model 70 Winchester can penetrate 5/8 steel plate using a Solid Bullet.


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In any case I would hate to be standing behind the vest with anything above a 22LR-and I'm not crazy about standing behnind the vest with one of those.


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with metal, speed, and bullet shape penetrates better.
with ceramics and bullet proof glass, energy or momentum penetrates better. A guy did a test on bullet proof glass. he shot a 308 150gr and it was stopped. he shot a 45-70 500 gr and it busted through no problem

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FWIW:

A 204 Ruger will penetrate a Steel target at 100 yards.

Saw it m'self on man-sized targets at ThunderRanch.

Pretty wild for a 20 grain vmax.

BMT


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Originally Posted by dgr416
I think a 416 of any flavor with the 400 gr Barnes Monlithic Soilds is a good SHTF gun.It will serve in many different areas you never thought of.It will open locked gates ,stop cars,open doors and many other wonderful uses.The 416 Rem mag or ruger,remington or Weatherby are good tools to have when the tough gets going!!!!!


Haha, you also forgot: to take out tanks and aircraft

Last edited by Polska; 03/08/11.

Jeszcze Polska nie zginela kiedy my zyjemy,co nam obca przemoc wziela szabla odbierzemy.

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