24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 387
Campfire Member
OP Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 387
The new Rem 30 AR cartridge, advertised to shoot at 125 grain bullet at 2800 fps making a nice deer rifle in the compact AR15 package rather than the larger AR10. Here is an article about the ballistics of the cartridge:

http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2008/10/15/remington-introduces-new-30-remington-ar-cartridge/

[Linked Image]

But on the REMINGTON WEBSITE, they are listing a 125 grain bullet at 2154 fps!!! Not even on par with a 7.62 x 39!

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/30_remington_ar.asp


ARIC

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 529
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 529
Looks like a techno idiot was looking at the 300 yd. velocities
when they came up the MV on the Rem. link.
I read an article in shooting times about the 30 RAR, they compared the 125 gr. RAR loading vs. the 308 Winchester with Remingtons 125 gr. managed recoil load, they were the same, no sh_t. So the RAR is equal to the 308? Not even close. Is it any better than a 6.8?
They pretty much eliminated the chances of wildcatting this cartridge due to the new upper receiver and bolt dimensions. Only if DPMS gets caught up and wants to sell these parts will that ever happen. Maybe they will chamber this in 6mm or 6.5mm or.. and move the shoulder forward, then they will have something.

Its all a marketing ploy to sell more magazines for the gun rags and sell more rifles for Remington. Don't get me wrong here, I wish the gun manufacturers the very best, I'm just not sure why they think that the gun buying public is so naive that they can print such BS and assume we don't know any better.

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
F
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
F
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Did they modify the upper receiver? I thought it was just a bolt modification?


[Linked Image]



Joined: May 2008
Posts: 529
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 529
Here is a snipit from last months Shooting Times;

The larger barrel extension required a larger upper receiver to accept it. The engineers started with a raw R-25 extrusion of 6066-T6 aluminum. The internal dimensions were machined to match that of the R-15. Externally, the receiver was machined to include a standard forward assist, a brass deflector, and a Picatinny-spec flattop rail. With a width of 1.3 inches, the receiver body is 0.1 inch wider than the standard R-15. A recess is milled in the left side of the receiver to accommodate the upper paddle of the lower's bolt release. To allow room for the larger .30 RAR spent cases, the ejection port is 0.58 inch, compared to the 0.50 opening of the standard R-15.

You can read the entire article here;
http://www.shootingtimes.com/longgun_reviews/ST_r15andthe30rar_200905-A.jpg


I do think that it is great that a big time gun manufacturer put the R&D into a project like this, it will help out the whole AR industry in the long run. I just wish they would have spent a little time finding out what the general shooting populace would like to see chambered in the AR15 platform.
I'm affraid this will become another 6mm Remington, SAUM, 260 Remington, 280 Remington etc... all great ideas, just wrong timing, wrong twist, wrong rifle or wrong caliber.
Time will tell

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
F
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
F
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Thanks. Did not know that. I think that dooms it to be a bastard round, unless like you said, DPMS gets parts out into the community.

Agree with your thoughts. I think this case in a .277 or .284 would have made a lot more sense.


[Linked Image]



IC B2

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,444
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,444
Remington wasn't the first one to this party. Olympic has had the big bolt on a standard AR for several years now going up to the Short Mag.

I've had a .473 bolt faced (same as 308 Win) 6BR for a couple of years now.
[Linked Image]

Here's a corrected link to the earlier referenced article in case anyone else had trouble. It was actually a pretty good review.
http://www.shootingtimes.com/longgun_reviews/ST_r15andthe30rar_200905/index3.html

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 765
P
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
P
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 765
Originally Posted by Foxbat
Agree with your thoughts. I think this case in a .277 or .284 would have made a lot more sense.

It's already available in .264 - the 6.5 Grendel. Works great in standard uppers with up to 144 gr. bullets.

Not from Remington though.

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,681
Tod Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,681
And the 6mmAR. It wouldn't be a stretch to go to 284. We've already had .277 in the 6.8SPC.


Be the person your dog thinks you are.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
F
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
F
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Originally Posted by PreciousLiberty
Originally Posted by Foxbat
Agree with your thoughts. I think this case in a .277 or .284 would have made a lot more sense.

It's already available in .264 - the 6.5 Grendel. Works great in standard uppers with up to 144 gr. bullets.

Not from Remington though.


Not quite. The Grendel has much less case capacity than the 30AR and only a few grains more than the 6.8 SPC. A 30AR necked down to .264, .277 or .284 would blow the Grendel out of the water.


[Linked Image]



Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,681
Tod Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,681
Having that .473 bolt face is a huge advantage.


Be the person your dog thinks you are.
IC B3

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,444
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,444
Quote
It's already available in .264 - the 6.5 Grendel. Works great in standard uppers with up to 144 gr. bullets.

Quote
And the 6mmAR. It wouldn't be a stretch to go to 284. We've already had .277 in the 6.8SPC.


The 6.5 Grendel is based on the PPC case which in turn is based on the 7.62x39. The rim diameter is .445" which is about the limit of opening up a standard AR boltface.

The 6.8SPC's rim diameter is .422"

The new 30RAR is based on a .473 rim (same as the 30-06 and 308, which is too big to fit a standard AR bolthead. The new Remington cartridge is essentially a 30BR (6mm BR opened up to 30cal). As others have said, it's got significantly more capacity than the Grendel.

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 207
P
pjf Offline
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
P
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 207
After comparing the external ballistics of the 6.5 Grendel (www.oa2.org/forums/download.php?id=4287) and the external ballistics of the .30 Remington AR posted at the beginning of this thread, I have to agree with 500grains and PreciousLiberty.

Beyond 100 yards, the 6.5 Grendel (see 123-grain column) delivers greater energy to the target with a flatter trajectory. Apparently, its efficiency trumps the greater case capacity of the .30 Remington AR.

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 74
Campfire Greenhorn
Offline
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 74
You make the statement that they are using a larger barrel extension. Assuming this resulted in a need for a larger barrel nut, do you know if they were at least smart enough to make the barrel nut and upper threads to match one of the available AR-10 type rifles? I fear another Pro Ord/Bushy Carbon 15 SNAFU where as NO aftermarket forends (among other parts) will fit this factory rifle. At least they started with a free float forend allowing some potential for accuracy, unlike the C15's.

It sounds like they at least got most of the other parts to be "common" interchangable.

Do the WSSM Olympics use commonly interchangable parts or are there other non-standard items in those uppers?

B

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,505
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,505
The first thing I thought when I learned of the round at the SHOT show this year, and it was being stuffed with a 125 stubby low BC/SD bullet, was What were they thinking?

Yet that is common place for Big Green IMHO.

I'd use a Grendel or 260 and be happy. The 6mm's appropriately twisted can be very effective as well.

Looking at the numbers by OP are laughable. A 6BR has 1k at 400 yds, using 105s.

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 130
A
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
A
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 130
I think of two wildcats off this cartridge that would be great. The 6.8 RAR and 22 RAR.

First, with all the light high quality bullets for the 6.8 SPC (TSA, Accubonds) you could get great velocity and flatter trajectory for deer/hog sized game.

Second, the 22 RAR would be the predator cartridge supreme in the AR. While probably not as fast as a 22/250, it should be mush faster than the 223.

With the 6mm Dasher being a big thing in 1000 yard shooting, this would be a great basis for just a little more umph.

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044
I wish Stag would offer their Left Hand Bolt in the 30 AR.


A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,806
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,806
Maybe they should have just neck the 6.8 SPC up to .30 and called it the "30 Remington Special" or something like that. wink

Seems like if you can drive a 115gr .270 at 2700 fps you ought to be able to drive a 125gr .30 at about that too.


Islam is a terrorist organization.

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,264
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,264
I'm thinking about the 7mm International - the .300 Savage shortened and necked down. It was intended for unlimited Silhouette pistols, but I wonder if it would be short enough to fit?


"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,928
C
CCH Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
C
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,928
The latest American Rifleman has some handloading info on the .30 AR and that writer (Bryce Towsley) was reporting 150 grain Nosler BTs at up to 2657 out of a 22" R-15. Not .308 Win, but well ahead of 7.62x39. With the right bullets, it really appears to be more .300 Savageish than anything else.


Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
97 members (16penny, 257_X_50, 338Rules, 444Matt, Akpilot, 13 invisible), 1,743 guests, and 742 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,727
Posts18,400,720
Members73,822
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.116s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8821 MB (Peak: 1.0155 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-29 07:27:42 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS