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Joined: Dec 2009
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I really hope nobody I know ever has to bet their life on a Tarus. [/quote] Agreed, whatever it is one can be sure it will have less metal than did the 1911's


If the world didnt suck we would all fall off!
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Originally Posted by Eremicus
All you need to do to see the difference in killing power of the 5.7 FN w/ non expanding ammo vs. the 9mm w/ hardball is to shoot a few 2.5 gallon jugs of water. Even the .45 ACP's hardball won't do much in the way of lateral damage to the jugs. They hardly split the sides of the jug at all. The 5.7's non expanding 27 gr. HP will rupture the sides of the jug to about half way back in a much more convincing manner. They, the 5.7 bullets don't penetrate nearly as much. The back of the jug, that's 12 inches, is all they have.
The Ft. Hood shooter used a 5.7 and kill many of his victims. Rep Giffords was shot through the head with a 9mm rd. Her doctor said that over 30% of such people so shot survive do to due to lack of laterial disruption. I can assure you that a 9mm HP load would rupture the head and blow out the back of it. Never heard of anyone surviving that kind of damage. E

....so the "non expanding" hollow points "don't penetrate nearly as much" but we want the gun because it's superior at piercing body armor??? I'm really not trying to be contentious......but that doesn't make any sense to me at all. First, what is a "non expanding hollow point," and if there were such a thing wouldn't it be against the Geneva Convention? Second, how can the bullet penetrate less than 9 or 45 hardball but still be good for penetrating body armor? I'm obviously confused.


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Don't forget, the PC politicians are pushing chicks in combat roles now, so the next sidearm, if there is one, will have to fit their small hands and not scare them.


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What I can tell you is that the 27 gr. loads have a non lead HP design that doesn't not expand when it hits water or wood. It appears to dump it's energy very quickly and they penetrate half or less than do the typical hardball rds. from the 9mm.
They burst the sides of the 2.5 gallon jugs I use much more convincingly. Like a 158 gr. swagged SWC at 940 fps. but in reverse. The above load bursts the rear half of the jugs while the 27 gr. non expanding HP's blow out the front half. The bullets are recovered w/o any expansion present.
I've never tested the AP ammo. I understand that they do indeed out perform everything else in military handgun load as far as penetrating body armor. Odviously I can't tell you how well they kill after doing such penetrating either.
Don't blame you for doubting this. Since I've sen this, I believe it. A very interesting pistol and ammo. E

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Springfield XD, you can abuse the hell out of them and they still work great.

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You are going to see a lot of Smith & Wesson M&P's in 9mm and .40 cal.

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