Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Savage Model 99- .284 Winchester question's ?

Hello:
I am a proud owner of a friend's rifle. He had it a long time and I finally coned him out of it reasonable. It is a 99-C and is in Winchester .284 Caliber. I was wondering how many of these were made and how rare they are? The Duog murry book I have does not talk in detail about this one. It is a later clip fed model. It also seem's to have exibition grade wood on it with real nice stripled grain. Thank's to all that reply. Regards, thegeneral.

I can't answer your question but I would like to see a picture!

The 284 isn't a very common round. If you got it for less than 600 dollars you should feel like a thief. I am guessing about 800 for one in nice condition, even though it is a clip fed model. JMHO. Les

I've got a 99C in 284 as well, gotta get a headspace problem worked out before deer season.

Also just grabbed up a 99C in 22-250 which is probably harder to find than the 284.

Hello :
I gave 200.00 for it and it cycles and fires fine. Thank's for the responses I will try to get a picture when I have time. Any idea how to find about how many of them in .284 Winchester were made ? That thing kick's like a mule and is very accurate.. Reghards,thegeneral

No idea on the quantity produced. The 99-C in .284 was produced from 1965-1973.

Stop that thief, you can tell him by the huge grin on his face. Good deal. I think he stole, how about you Rick, Joe? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Les

Mad dog ... was the 22-250 from Epps. I saw it but passed as I don't collect anything this side of World War 2. I've only seen 2 or 3 over the years.
Market sureseems tight right now, very few good guns for sale of any maker.
My report card time so little time left for Savages, haven't opened gunroom in 4 days.
Bill R

Yep, thats the one Bill.

I don't have alot of A series around here either but for that price in that caliber I couldn't resist. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Along with the 284 and 22-250 my only other A series rifle is an old model 170 in 30-30.

Hello Violator:
This is a long story.. I had totaly haunted my friend for this rifle for year's. He had it in as the original owner owed him some money. He kept it 9 year's before I landed it. I paid him just what the welcher did not pay back. A month after I got the rifle he called me laughing saying the original owner showed up with the dough but did not get the .284 ... I agree that the rotary magazine model's are more craftsmanship and have owned three in the past 20 year's but you can not get the .284 in them.. Regards, thegeneral

The .284 was made in the F and DL models. I would bet there were more rotary models made than Cs.

Maybe it is a regional thing, but I've seen and owned more 99Cs in 284 than all rotary magazine styles combined. 99s in 284 were very uncommon in New England, but there seem to be a fair number of them in and around Nebraska. I got really lucky a several years ago at a show in Wichita, KS, and went home with a minty 99PE for $700. The majority of the 284s that I see are in pretty good condition and appear to have been used very little, perhaps because ammo is less common and more expensive.

Jeff

perhaps because ammo is less common and more expensive
Hey Jeff:
I tend to agree that the ammo is pricey but let's face it they are not a real "PLEASURE" to bang away with.. Mine isnt to me anyway's. I am getting older and do not enjoy the recoil I did as a young man. I also believe they were more of a mid West rifle due to there long range capability. Regards. thegeneral

I tend to agree with Mike, the rotarys were out long before the C's and had a good headstart on the mag fed models.

I've seen more 284's in rotarys listed than C's. I'd like to get Jeds point of view on this, he's seen alot of 284's so I'd like to know what he's seen more of.

I have seen more 99C's in .284 than the rotary mag models in western Canada--have only seen the one Joe bought (99C) and one that I bought (99DL) in the last 3 or 4 years so they seem to be getting scarcer. There was a dealer in BC who listed and sold at least 4 or 5 99C's (different ones) in the space of a year about 5 years ago.

LawMan

Actually, the 284 was introduced in 1964 and the 99C in 1965, so 365 days, or less, does not make much of a lead. BTW, I have seen exactly 1 cut checkered 284 and it was a proto-type, so I wonder how many 284s were actually made/shipped before Savage went to pressed checkering in 1965.

Jeff

Is there anyway to get numbers on calibers anymore?

Are all the files on these gone?

I'm wondering how high up J.C. can go.

Rick when you were down there why didn't you go through the piddly thousands of files and count up the 25-35's, 38-55,s and 32-40's? Bahahahahhaaa!!!!!!!!

Hello:
I had a few spare minutes so grabbed a few pictures of my model 99 In .284 Winchester. You can see how nice the wood is and there is no checkering and that may also help in determining when it was made. Regards, thegeneral.

Pretty wood! Too bad Savage seldom put such nice figured wood on their production guns. If it belonged to me, I'd have it checkered.

Jeff

That is a very nice rifle. My question is do you feel bad about buying it, I hope not, i wouldn't. Les

The attached picture is of a .284 DL that I was dumb enough to sell to the 9.3 guy. Not for $200 though...

Would you argue with 200 for the rifle he got, I darn sure wouldn't Les

Hello Violator:
I do not feel a bit bad about paying 200.00 for it. My friend set the price and I handed him the cash. It shoot's as good as it look's and I have no plan's to get rid of this tough to find caliber. It also does not bother me that it is clip fed having both they are both fine rifles this one and the rotary magazine ones. Regards, thegeneral

I wouldn't trust 'em, that wood looks made up

I would say it is aftermarket wood. The wood probably is worth the $200 and the metal is free. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hello:
I am afraid you are "WRONG" the wood came on the gun as the original owner ordered it that way. Back in the day this was made you had a choice of ordering this wood. I also have seen it on other Savages as well. Thank's for the insult this is why I do not like to post pictures. to those of you that made nice comment's.. Thank's ...<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> thegeneral.

General,

I don't think there were any insults intended, merely comments and learned opinions. As you are fairly new to the "Fire" you may not be used to the informal banter that is commonly encountered here.

Just my opinion...but then again I could be all wrong.

In any case, I think thats nice wood for a 99.

Best regards,

Chris

As stated above, no "...insults intended, merely comments and learned opinions."

At one point Savage operated a production facility and a specialty shop. You could order it "your way". I think the specialty shop modified factory guns and there were some strange ones produced. Your rifle might have been one of those rifles. But with a recoil pad, no grip cap and no checkering there is not much there to indicate Savage production wood. It would be a good idea to try and document it. Should you deside to sell the rifle at some point in time, proof of Savage work will get you a much better price then just a story. In the gun world that is just the way it is.

No expert, just my opinion. Thanks for posting the pictures. I alway enjoy looking at nice wood.

No disrespect to you or the original owner, but I'd want to see a letter from Clark or Callahan stating that the wood on the rifle you have pictured came from Savage before I would believe it.

I didn't see that anybody slighted your rifle, it is a nice looking piece, but the general opinion remains that the wood doesn't look like it was done in Westfield, MA. If we're wrong, we're wrong, and it is just our opinion, so why get your drawers in a bind over nothing?

Jeff

I have learned alot frompeople Like Rick, Jed, Mad Dog, Lightfoot and even Lauren. They are not telling you things because they don't know, so don't get upset if it is not what you want to hear. They tell me I am wrong when I am wrong and I appreciate it when they do, I have a problem with open mouth insert foot. You need to get yourself a Murrays book, read it then read it again. The rifle looks great, noe of us has put it down for that, but there may be a chance that the wood isn't right. The only way to know is to get it lettered. So don't get offended. JMHO, Les

Hello:
To Start I have Both of Douglas P.Murray's book's and he only touches "LIGHTLY" on the clip fed model's and anyone that has really tried to look into these clip fed version's would know that. Like I also said earlier I have owned Several model 99's so this aint my first rodeo with one of there product's.He also point's out that he missed alot of information on several different model's and learn's of these differences all the time so the issue at hand may not be chissled in stone according to him. Other than a basic start date caliber line up and subtle changes it is worthless on newer model's. Now I have a 51 EG model that he does a decent job researching and providing pertinent information about important changes, barrel addresses and proof mark locations.. I am not convinced a letter would even solve the the wood issue as I have a model 220-A single shot shot gun That was bought brand new in 1937. Savage has no notes nor information that would let one think it came with anything but a plain smooth forend or a pistol grip stock.As A matter a fact they refer to this model as a utility grade shot gun but mine has many custom "FACTORY" features. The one I have has a beaver tail forend that is checkerd and a monte Carlo stock that have been on it since the Day my Grandfather bought it for 16.52 cent's back in 1937 and it was ordered and delived by mail through the Montomery Ward Catalog. He forot to check what caliber he wanted so they actually shipped two. One in 12 Gauge which he kept and one in 16 Gauge which he sent back this one I have also has a 36" Full choke barrel.I did meet a guy and I do not recall his name that claim's to be a historian for The Savage arm's corp or the one that bought all there previous record's. I told him of it at a large gun show where we met. He had a large Savage display that sparked my interest and he stated they never made nor shipped one like that when I explained all the different features mine had. At the time I lived 65 Miles from the show and could not run home to retrieve it to show him. I made arrangement's to bring it back the following year for him to see as he said he would return there to the same location. As planned I returned with it the following year and he was able to see the wood I was talking about when I handed him the gun. It also has a ivory looking front bead sight and a grouse scene on both sides of the receiver. He explained he had never seen one like it but heard of them. To me this showed that not all the factory record's may be complete nor show that a new model may have had all these bell's and whistles so to speak since this was a first year production. As far as the wood on my 99 goes I was told it is original and that is good enough for me if you look at and older EG model these are exact and it may be the original owner may have requested this style over the checkerd one instead along with the famous Savage Schnable style fore end it has.. The recoil pad is and add on and for 200.00 who really cares ? As I said earlier in the thread I have no desire to part with it just shoot it and enjoy the unique caliber that it is. I am not a collector just a hunter and one who uses every rifle or revolver that I have. Just my point of view on it. The rifle really is a tight grouping piece and that is one of the reason's I have kept it along with the fact I believe the .284 never got the credit it deserved from the start as it was dwarfed by the 7MM Magnum instead. Douglas Murray has a decent book and I am not aware if he has come out with one since I purchased the third edition dated 1985.If he has maybe he has put forth more effort on the newer model's But like I said he only touches lightly on the clip fed model's as far as deep research goes. as far as getting my drawers in a bind. I feel the original owner should know what he ordered or changed out on this rifle more than someone getting paid to look up information that may not even be available to them. Did savage have a custom shop back then ?I really do not know myself but would be interested in knowing this. I have also read that many of Savage's record's are lost so is it just and educated guess when you receive this letter ? I have seen other gun firm's that were not able to explain changes or differences in a make up of a firearm as well. Just a thought. thegeneral

All in all, Nice rifle, nice deal. since it is a shooter that just makes it sweeter. Les

Well, its your rifle, so if you want to believe that the wood was something special that the factory did, good for you. Without a letter from Clark or Callahan, I wouldn't believe it. There are lots of made up guns out there and lots of people who advertise special features that aren't special or original.

I can't see that there is much more "depth" of research that anyone could do on the 99Cs and come up with pearls of wisdom that aren't obvious. 1 thing is for sure, the only 99s that were cataloged without checkering in the post-1960 era were the 99E, sometimes, and the 99A/99A Brushgun, always.

If you want to feel insulted by anything that I have posted, go ahead and feel insulted. I won't lose any sleep over you or your rifle with the non-cataloged wood.

Jeff

General, I think you're right on the .284 not getting the credit it deserved. I have been shooting the .284 for appx. 20 years and have absolutely no problems with it, it has killed many deer and elk for me. Balistics are better (like for like) than 30.06 and my 99F still has great grouping, enjoy your rifle, I'm curious what the comparison would be the newer 7mm WSM balistics, Vern.

Hello Savage 284:
Right you are Sir.. Too many jump on the "MAGNUM" kick. They see Magnum after a caliber and figure it is better without even looking at the ballistics first. The .284 Is so close to the 7 MM magnum that they are almost one. I also believe Heavy advertisment sell's a caliber and Remington along with other's have done this for year's. Another fine caliber that was washed out so to speak was the .30 Rem. I have this one in and old Remington Model 14 Pump Rifle. It was run off by the famous Winchester offering 30-30 which still prevail's today. It is a known fact that one can hand load a .30 Rem to much greater speed and pressures than the 30-30 can offer.Another interesting thing is all the old Remington model 14's had a case head installed in the side of the receiver. At first I thought it may be to alert the shooter of the caliber he had but later found out it is a gas release port to keep the over pressure of a round from destroying the receiver. I backed the load down a bit after seeing a small amount of white flash out the primer hole when firing.. L.O.L. Regards, thegeneral.

It is a known fact that the 30 Remington can be load at greater pressures than the factory loaded 30-30 and 30 Remington IN SOME RIFLES/ACTIONS, but certainly not in the Remington 14/141, Standard, or Stevens 425. While you could load the 30 Remington to greater pressure in a Remington Model 30 and, maybe in a 8/81, you can load the 30-30 just a heavy in a Remington 788 or Winchester 54. The 25, 30, and 32 Remington weren't, aren't, and never will be as popular as the Winchester offerings because of the limited number of firearms for which they were chambered and the limited distrubution of ammunition. Winchester just got too big a head-start on Remington and the U.S. was a mostly a lever action market when Remington was pushing pump guns and semi-autos.

I think that the 284 got a bad, and unfair, rap from Jack O'C. Being the most influential gun writer of his day, his opinion counted and he wasn't a 284 fan, so the 284 never really got off the ground. Add to that the fact that there were few bolt action rifles available for it, Browning and ???, to go along with the Savage 99s, Winchester 88s, and Winchester 100s.

Jeff

...I recall ol'Cactus Jack had quite some affection for the 284, but he did criticise having to seat the heavier bullets into the case because of the cartridge case neck being so short. He thought it a finelighter bullet weight caliber though, capable of taking game as large as Elk with a well placed shot as cleanly as his beloved 270 Winchester.I have a clear recollection of this since it prompted me to buy a Savage 99F with rotary magazine in .284, which I still have.

Wow - just about 7 years from the last post and the one before it

The big advantage the .284 gave the shooter/hand-loader was that it literally DUPLICATED the longer-bolt-throw .280 Remington cartridge's ballistics in the "shorter, fatter" .284 cartridge which could be chambered in shorter-action rifles like the Model99 Savage rifle.

This gave the shorter action rifle owner/user the same ballistic capabilities as the longer action rifle owner/user had... the very premise which spawned the popularity of the so-called "short, fat cartridges" like the .308 Winchester, et.al. and all the short, fat magnum cartridges that came out later.

But the .284 Winchester was NOT the original "short, fat" cartridge, the .300 Savage cartridge, introduced in 1920, did the same thing by duplicating the then-.30/06 ballistics in a shorter cartridge used in a shorter action rifle like the Model 99 Savage.

While it is true that the .300 Savage never got the notoriety that the .308 Winchester and, later, all the other "short, fat" cartridges received when they were introduced, one must realize that in it's day, the .300 Savage was a highly-regarded and oft-used cartridge for all manner of big game hunting short of the big bears... and regularly took very large, non-dangerous game like elk, caribou and moose with boring regularity.

While the .300 Savage cartridge has lost most of it's "glammor", those wise, older hunters "in-the-know" still cling to the almost century old cartridge because they know it to be "THE" perfect white-tail and black bear cartridge in the eastern woods.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

You go Ron! I like the way that you think!

I remain amazed that there can be a seven year pause in a thread and then it starts up again without missing a beat

Me too.

It also amazes me that anyone would pay a premium price for a 284 to hunt with, particularly if he/she was going to shoot the Winchester/Olin 150 grain factory load that has exactly the same performance specs as the much less expensive and much more common 308.

Jeff

Some folks don't like to be lumped into that category.

The 308 is practical.

The 284 is cool.

You should never confuse the two.

Interesting that the OP has over 1400 posts and this one was his very first post (in 2005). I see he hasn't posted anywhere on the campfire for the last six months. I wonder if he still has the rifle?

I'm thinking that he didn't like the responses to several of his posts here as it seemed that he didn't have what he thought he had. I could well be wrong. I've been known to leap out with an opinion before I've perused all the facts.

This is not a place to hang out if you don't have the skin thickness of a big northern salty & a somewhat twisted sense of humour LOL

Johno

I've got to agree with you on that, Johno. Hey, what's this - agreement on this site

Hey, it could happen. Not likely but it could happen.

Probably because of the Transit of Venus across the sun, which also generated a fresh uprising of zombies- or so I'm told.

***************************************************

Zombies?!?!?!?!? (YIKES!!!)

Who da THUNK it !~!~!

Everyone watch their face!

Nah George, the boltman is in total disagreement with me, he's just funnin you

Johno

To tie it altogether, zombies pretend to agree with you just to lure you close enough to eat your face. The guys around here will be the last to have their faces eaten.

Clearly we are both bored, I think we should run another off topic thread to 16 pages again mate, that was fun

Johno

Johno - I just sent a check off for these three Ross MkII** military style commerical target rifles equipped with some fancy and intricate receiver sights. Man, I wonder what General Stuart would say about the thread he started seven years ago! Zombies, Ross rifles, what's next :0

By the way, I debated on posting these rifles on the Savage campfire... because... well, they're not Savage rifles. Then I realized this is the perfect thread for them

Could'nt agree more, the perfect thread for it.
Some very nice additions to the collection mate, guess you will be advertising some 99s soon.

Remember to use the classified section though, you can give a heads up here but that's it LOL

This is going to fun. Locked in with flood waters, to cold to play in the shed. Bring it on

Johno

Those are some interesting sights. I see the top and bottom ones are made by BSA. Were they specific to the Ross, or were they adapted to the Ross from something else. Interesting also is how they combined a vernier scale with a receiver sight.

The middle one is a total mystery to me. Parker-Hale?

Middle one is a Westley-Richards. Ross didn't ship target rifles with sights - he had the European attitude that it would be coarse to presume what sights the target shooter would want. It is quite the matter of individual preference. The other two sights - British Parker Model G mounted on a BSA base; BSA 9-A mounted on a BSA Ross base. The eye-cup has a rotating eyepiece by BSA with six different aperatures in it.

Hang in there Johno - I sure hope those flood waters don't flush those damn zombies out :0

I have a rotary magazine Model 99 in .284.

The year after I pounded away at my would-have-been first deer with a bolt action 20 gauge shotgun with mixed buck and slugs and it subsequently managed to make it far enough for an older couple to claim Pops figured I needed a rifle.

A friend of his had this odd caliber lever gun and he figures you can't get the ammo for it anymore so he sells the Savage Model 99 (practically new) in .284, leather case, Leupold scope and 6 boxes of ammo to Pops for $100.00 :-)

We scoured local hole-in-the wall hardware/sporting good stores for ammo, eventually netting something like a dozen more boxes (he got 4 or 5 of them in Broadway, VA. they're still proudly sporting their $5.75 price tags) My Dad admonished me to treat the spent casings like they were gold, I think I only ever lost 1. I don't think I have gone through more than a box of ammo back then, and it's still at their house, though I'll pick it up in the fall when back for a Match in N.C.

It is a damn fine rifle, and as previously mentioned does pack a whallop, at least back when I weighed under 150.

Welcome to the forum, Axenolith. $100 was a steal for that package. List price back in the 60's for rotary 284's was $133 or higher (depending on year). They sell for a bit more nowadays..

Amazing how much they have gone since this started

A loaf of bread was a nickle when I was a kid. What's your point?

A loaf of bread is bout $2.50 now. That is his point.

What is yours?

Axenolith, seven years on the 24HRC. Glad your first posting was here on the Savage Collectors Forum.

I wish I’d bought a bunch of 99’s when they were cheaper. I discovered them late in my life. I guess that is my point. Things are going up like crazy.

I about peed myself when I read that the OP bought the rifle for $200! Damn!
I paid $500 for a 48' EG 300 with Stith mounted Weaver and giggled on my way home....

I've never seen and don't expect to see a rotary .284..... just don't...
I'd love to find an F in .300, checkered and lever safety and factory DT... my ideal 99.

I owned a Win 88 in .284 for a while. Nice rifle, but terrible trigger. Ran Speer 130 Hot Cores in it for Blacktails and it worked just fine. Anything longer was definitely going to be intruding on powder capacity.

Bought this 284 about a year ago. Cut checkered, stock had been cut, recoil pad added. I found a cut checkered stock to replace the original. I load 120 Barnes for it. It’s a sub inch gun with that load, folded that buck right up. I paid 1300.00 for it. I’d like to find another.