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Originally Posted by Middlefork_Miner
Originally Posted by keith


Mr. Burns is all about shot placement, not shooting center of mass.


He may well be...but how many of his "customers" aren't???
I can think on a few people I know who'd buy into the idea that they could pull that chit off just because they have the cash to do so...


I know people who think they can do the same thing just because they have a Savage Heavy Barrel rifle. We all know that the Savage rifle if far more accurate than a Remington, Winchester, or Ruger--and cost $200 dollars less!!

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I really don't want to hunt that way but if others do, great for them.

I really don't care what Greybull Precision charges. I used to work for a company that charged a lot more than GP for a rifle and no scope. And they too had a very limited list of options. Guess what, the rifles sold and there is an extensive waiting time.

I was actually pretty impressed with some of Burns' responses on the other thread when other posters said some negative things about him. Though I'm wondering if the witty replies aren't starting to be a distraction from not answering questions.

I just can't get around the fact that there are no mistakes ever for these guys, there dang near was on the grizzly footage. What really bothers me is it's obivous on some of those hunts that GP talked whoever had the tag (sheep) into using their rifle for the hunt so a video could be made. I really doubt all those recruits spent the time behind the rifle at range to really be proficient. One outfitter that is/was associated with the whole Best of the West, Wind River precision, greybull precision, gunwerks group even advertises that you can use his rifle (which is the same idea as Greybulls) for long range sheep shooting. Now that isn't Burns, but I gotta wonder if the same idea isn't happening with this.

Maybe I'm wrong and there never are any misses/wounding and all these shooters spent countless hours at the range before their shoot at their trophy.

Like I said it isn't the kind of hunting I want to do, isn't the kind of rifle I want to carry, but if those guys are as good as they say and imply to be in the videos then great.

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this is great smile everyone is either right or wrong....

i am comfortable shooting at things i can hit at a distance i know.

i have seen HUNDREDS of people walk into the store and buy the same COLOR box of ammo they bought last year the night before the season opens.... they have not shot their gun since last season and wont till they see a deer. they feel quite comfortable having no clue how far the animal is nor where they hell the bullet is going..... and we share the woods with them every year...

i only have an opinion of how far I can feel good about taking an animal.

i will welcome anyone who puts in more bench time with their hunting rifle AT THE RANGE THEY WILL HUNT than i could ever hope to.....

welcome sir.......

woofer


"I would build one again, if it were not for my 350RM (grin)."

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Originally Posted by Ralphie






What really bothers me is it's obivous on some of those hunts that GP talked whoever had the tag (sheep) into using their rifle for the hunt so a video could be made. I really doubt all those recruits spent the time behind the rifle at range to really be proficient.


Long range shooting is best done by a PAIR of experienced shooters. On a military sniper team, the LEAST experienced shooter pulls the trigger. The senior guy dopes the wind and gives the shooter his wind hold in mils, eyeballs the elevation turret and confirms the range setting is correct, an reads and interprets the bullet trace. So, saying that maybe some of these long range kills would never have happened without a good coach, doesn't mean they should not have taken the shot, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Steelhead
Now it's gonna get ugly.



amazing how dead on nuts you were with this simple statement Scott!!!! Hats off!


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Originally Posted by 65BR
RL28,

Did you get your answer to your question sir? You asked a direct question re: how many animals were wounded correct?

Seems like a song and dance, 'We really don't shoot....really don't try...'

I think that was a side stepped PC answer.


No, I too thought the question could have been answered more direct.


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Originally Posted by cessna152
If your a 1000 yards away, how many folks are you shooting over the top of who are trying to hunt?


I had that happen to me twice. I could hear the bullets whizzing over my head. Did not like it not one little bit.



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Originally Posted by Ralphie
What really bothers me is it's obivous on some of those hunts that GP talked whoever had the tag (sheep) into using their rifle for the hunt so a video could be made. I really doubt all those recruits spent the time behind the rifle at range to really be proficient. One outfitter that is/was associated with the whole Best of the West, Wind River precision, greybull precision, gunwerks group even advertises that you can use his rifle (which is the same idea as Greybulls) for long range sheep shooting. Now that isn't Burns, but I gotta wonder if the same idea isn't happening with this.


John Porter has been doing this same thing for years.His standard line with clients is,"I'll have one of my rifles along just in case.We'll let you dry fire it a few times and then you can take the shot.We connect on elk all the time out past 1000 yards".

Bottom line is shooting at these ranges allows outfitters and guides to get lazy out of shape [bleep] slobs to fill tags that otherwise wouldn't get filled.The guide doesn't have to bust ass trying to put on a stalk just to have some winded slob mess it up,horses don't get torn up carrying lardasses across terrain that shouldn't be ridden but has to be because the client can't walk it.

If the client doesn't want to shoot at long range,the guide/outfitter simply rambo's the client over all kinds of rough terrain,combined with with high elevation for a couple days until the poor [bleep] cries uncle and agrees to shoot long range. It's also very common for the guide to do the shooting,with nobody the wiser..

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Having a problem with this video and this style of shooting is very akin to saying cars shouldn't be sold that exceed the maximum allowable speed limit.

Yes animals lives are at stake but the end game is everyone is free to choose their way.

With the proper preparation and practice I think this is some amazing shooting.

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Good points Tom.

Question Tom, at what ratio of clean kills vs. wounded animals are acceptable to you? 10 kills, 3 wounded? 3 kills, 10 wounded?

In my state, wanton waste of game, not recovered by a good faith effort is illegal and punishable. How does this play out in a scenario where 'pot shots' might be taken at game, and said animals are never recovered?

What about wounded game that may have been taken cleanly by other hunters not out to snipe game? What about unrecovered animals, the meat not eaten by a hunter, and they are taken out of the reproductive pool?

What about hunters who get '2nd dibs' on shot opportunities, when bullets are flying over them towards game they are stalking?

Thoughts? Are ANY and ALL LR Game Sniping shots justified? Or should one consider the true costs of shots gone awry?

Whats an acceptable range? 800 yds? 1200? 1600? 2200? Where does this trend end?

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Originally Posted by 65BR
Good points Tom.

Question Tom, at what ratio of clean kills vs. wounded animals are acceptable to you? 10 kills, 3 wounded? 3 kills, 10 wounded?

In my state, wanton waste of game, not recovered by a good faith effort is illegal and punishable. How does this play out in a scenario where 'pot shots' might be taken at game, and said animals are never recovered?

What about wounded game that may have been taken cleanly by other hunters not out to snipe game? What about unrecovered animals, the meat not eaten by a hunter, and they are taken out of the reproductive pool?

What about hunters who get '2nd dibs' on shot opportunities, when bullets are flying over them towards game they are stalking?

Thoughts? Are ANY and ALL LR Game Sniping shots justified? Or should one consider the true costs of shots gone awry?

Whats an acceptable range? 800 yds? 1200? 1600? 2200? Where does this trend end?
Are you like this all the time?

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Originally Posted by fatjack34
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Now it's gonna get ugly.



amazing how dead on nuts you were with this simple statement Scott!!!! Hats off!


Didn't take a genius...




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Originally Posted by 65BR
Good points Tom.

Question Tom, at what ratio of clean kills vs. wounded animals are acceptable to you? 10 kills, 3 wounded? 3 kills, 10 wounded?

In my state, wanton waste of game, not recovered by a good faith effort is illegal and punishable. How does this play out in a scenario where 'pot shots' might be taken at game, and said animals are never recovered?

What about wounded game that may have been taken cleanly by other hunters not out to snipe game? What about unrecovered animals, the meat not eaten by a hunter, and they are taken out of the reproductive pool?

What about hunters who get '2nd dibs' on shot opportunities, when bullets are flying over them towards game they are stalking?

Thoughts? Are ANY and ALL LR Game Sniping shots justified? Or should one consider the true costs of shots gone awry?

Whats an acceptable range? 800 yds? 1200? 1600? 2200? Where does this trend end?


You are delving way off course here... Folks get shot past all the time on public grounds... it isn't only LR folks that might do that by accident... hell I've seen folks do it much shorter ON PURPOSE...

As to acceptable... beat to death its been, but you cannot put a distance on it... it all depends... its up to the shooter to know that he is 200% sure... and an LR guy is generally... while the weekend wally world bore sighted warriors blaze away at game up close, wounding more, loosing more... not even going to look... the LR shots are by far the LEAST of your concerns ethically by far.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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What's clear to me, is most of you guys don't get out enough.

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What's clear to me is that a lot of the same guys feel they need to make decisions for others on hunting and shooting, not to mention how they spend their time and money...



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Originally Posted by 65BR
Good points Tom.

Question Tom, at what ratio of clean kills vs. wounded animals are acceptable to you? 10 kills, 3 wounded? 3 kills, 10 wounded?

In my state, wanton waste of game, not recovered by a good faith effort is illegal and punishable. How does this play out in a scenario where 'pot shots' might be taken at game, and said animals are never recovered?

What about wounded game that may have been taken cleanly by other hunters not out to snipe game? What about unrecovered animals, the meat not eaten by a hunter, and they are taken out of the reproductive pool?

What about hunters who get '2nd dibs' on shot opportunities, when bullets are flying over them towards game they are stalking?

Thoughts? Are ANY and ALL LR Game Sniping shots justified? Or should one consider the true costs of shots gone awry?

Whats an acceptable range? 800 yds? 1200? 1600? 2200? Where does this trend end?


For my particular tastes I would like my ratio to be under 1/10. I definetly don't like the thought of waste. We are likely in the same boat on many of these opinions.

Issue here is the assumption. No one can assume that the hunter isn't a practiced shooter. In addition, it's up to choice. The guy behind the rifle might not care if they loose 9 of 10 animals. We hope that there aren't many out there like that.

I'll share a story that might set my thoughts off. My uncle and I were standing near the barn at a farmer friend's property. It was hunting season in Pennsylvania. As we were standing there a doe dashes between the two fields around 150 yard running parallel to us. My uncle pulls up his rifle and fires off a shot and we see the deer tumble. We walk up to the deer and it's spined. Without hesitation the farmer pulls out a knife and starts gutting it. The damn deer is still completely alive and this guy is gutting the thing. To him that's just normal. He's a farmer. Me I was pretty shocked.

This happened when I was younger. Around 17. Now that I've been there and done that, I've slit a few throats etc... That and what the farmer did were pretty much on par.

Different points of view I guess.

Tom

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Good vid to watch, thx for supplying it, just got in from a night on the hill looking for billy the bruin, cold n wet snow and rain..gotta love Sept in the Rockies.. grin

Looks to me like the fella shooting the 890 yd Alaskan moose had an empty case or two sitting on his pack b4 the kill shot? True or not?

Are you actually in Greybull John and if so is that range in GB as well?

Thx
Dober


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Dober,

Not sure what you are referring to on Moose?? Is this Best of the West??

I am on the Greybull River but upriver from Greybull.

I need a good area to chase blackies in Mt and would be willing to swap info and assistance on WY elk, deer , antelope if someone though that might be a fair trade.

I would haul 4 of the best riding and packing mules to MT to chase spring blackies if only I knew where to start. He He.


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John,

The moose I was talking about popped up as a pic at the end of your vid when you nuked the yote, I could click on the bottom of the vid that you put up it said something like 890 yd moose and I clicked on it. I've no idea if it's BOW or who's but it was on the vid you put up.

Just found it, it says something about Jim's moose kill, and Huskemaw scopes, it is on BOTW and was on u-tube, who knows how I found it last night, I was cold n about a popsicle...grin

I got warmed up, now it's time to go to my G-sons first football game in his new tackle league. Thinking about taking my ground blind to sit in...grin

Have a super day there John

Dober

Last edited by Mark R Dobrenski; 09/18/10.

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Side note John, what do you like for bullets in an 06?

Gracias

Dober


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