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As promised the 44 mag test with the 240 grain JFP




The 10 jugs



The board tipped over at the shot and the jugs all fell on the ground. I placed them back on the board for the photo in the order that I believed they were in originaly




The load penetrated through and exited 7 jugs. The exit in jug 7 was high and right and missed jug 8






Entrance in the first jug





Damage to the first 3 jugs

[img]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d62/jwp475/PenetrationTest44Mag240JFPWinWhiteBox.jpg[/img]

.45 ACP Federal Hydrashock 230 grain JHP does all I need. I don't pack a Colt Commander for bears.

Rather impressive I'd say. Thanks for the pics. E

jwp,

Nice gun, nice load.

Just remember that it's stain-LESS, not stain-PROOF! :-)

I have that same Smith. The problem with the test is the inability to control the bullet's path. Penetration may have gone on had the bullet not walked off course.

Dan

Now put a piece of 3/4 plywood in front of the jug, put this on a skateboard and roll it down a hill at yourself at about 25 mph. Turn your back to it and have a buddy let you know when it's about 10 yards from you. Turn, draw and shoot it. Tis should simulate a bear encounter head shot. Tried to think of a way to do this in the brush, but couldn't.

IF you'll look at the photo, (not a hard thing to do) that 255gr. hard cast bullet has a decent meplat and that makes it nothing like a "standard round nose". The meplat on that 255gr. bullet is similar to the normal 230gr. JFN-FN that Hornady and others make and if you get a much bigger meplat on any 45 acp bullet, you'll start hearing from a lot of folks about having feeding problems in their semi autos.

JWP,

Thanks for the post and the work you went to.

Fun test. I always pull for the old war horses. The 45-70, 45 Colt, 45ACP, and 30-06 are hard to beat. I always wonder how penetration compares to raw kinetic energy. In the Linebaugh National wet newspaper contests the 45-70 out penetrated everything, including the 500 Nitro Express. That doesnt mean ill be toting it over to Africa and busting Buff and Jumbo with it. Im not discrediting your tests with this load or even saying it wouldnt take down a bear or elk, im just suggesting that sometimes theres no substitute for raw energy. I carry my 1911 with me deer hunting sometimes. I intend on taking one with it sometime and ill guarantee you i would rather have it than a stick during a bear attack.

My 338 Lapua with a 300 grain bullet at 2800 FPS calculates to 5222 FPE. With a 250 grain bullet at 3200 FPS the FPE is 5684. I can assure you that it is not better nor is it the equal to a 500 grain 45 caliber bullet traveling at 2100 FPS and 4895 FPE

Energy is a poor way to rate lethality, quality and integrity of the bullet and the ability to penetrate mean much much more than energy figures on a piece of paper

JWP, really nice grips on the .44!

This is the hardest hitting 45 ACP load that I have seen factory loaded and I will not hesitate to use this load. Wider meplats will certainly give some guns problems in feeding.

The 255 grain load is accurate in my gun and I like it a lot in my Kimber Ultra Carry 11 as well as in my full size 1911's





Thanks

The flat point, .45 ACP gives nothing like the lateral damage that the various 185-230 gr. HP ammo does. At least not in the test media I use. Really very little more than the standard round nose stuff. The HP ammo and even the wadcutter target loads also kill small game alot better than the round nose stuff.
I suspect a wider flat point could be used. Wadcutter ammo can be very reliable if properly assembled with new brass. The wide flat point 10mm, 200 gr. Double Tap bullets are very close to a full wadcutter for instance. And they feed perfectly in my 1006. E

So, just because a 45acp penetrates more milk jugs than the 44 mag did its better for bear or elk. And why dont we hunt buff and jumbo with 45-70's instead of 470's and 416's? If penetration is better why dont we deer hunt with fmj ammo? In the case of dangerous game or protection from game say what you want but stopping power is best. Sometimes that means a give and take with penetration and energy. An arrow would shoot through all of them but i would still rather have a gun. Either way, how do you like the lapua for long range? Im considering purchasing one. And as I said before, I dont discount your test and I respect what you have done. Im just suggesting that there are some instances where penetration is not always the goal. The same said about energy.

One must reach the vitails to be effective. With proper bullets the 44 mag will out penetrate the 45 ACP. These bullets do indeed make the 45 ACP able to take larger game than less penetrative bullets.

The 416 with a proper bullet will indeed out penetrate the 45-70

Read through this thread and all of you questions will be answered

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/2861098911/p/1

The thread is at 139 pages today, but the amount of testing is unparrelled and proves beyound a shadow of a doubt the importance of bullet selection and nose shape and profile on treminal performance and penetration

925 fps with 255gr bullet? Isn't that a bit of a strong load JWP when the standard 230ball is 850?

That's what I was thinking ! All of my loading data shows only 825 fps. for that weight bullet. E

Here is the load;

.45 ACP +P Pistol and Handgun Ammo
.45 ACP +P Ammo - 255 gr. Hard Cast FN (925 fps/M.E. 484 ft. lbs.) - 20 Round Box


http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?pg=2&l=product_list&c=12


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http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?p=544958#post544958

For those that have .45's that are ramped properly, our .452"-255gWFNPB bullet is an amazing game harvester in a .45ACP. I load it with WLPP and 7.0g AA#5 with the COL Somewhat shorter than with other bullets simply so that the bearing surface of the forward driving band just clears the lands in the throat of the chamber. These bullets, with their huge frontal area redefine the game harvesting potential of the .45ACP!




These bullets have a meplat diameter of .360", and with the above load in a standard Govt configuration 1911 will get about 950 fps. This puts the ACP into the same tier as the old .45 Colt factory loads, albeit with the advantage of a well designed, wide meplat bullet for optimal game performance.

Merry Christmas, and God bless.

Wanted to bring this thread back-up for two reasons ....

1. I just like the look of that springer .... am looking at one similar, but don't think I'll pull the trigger yet.

2. Are there any 1911's out there that one SHOULD NOT use with +P ammo??? ... RRA and the other Filipino guns? Older Colts?

Just curious .... thanks

The Philippine guns use the same grade of steel as most everyone else, very good; they can take most anything you can throw at them. I wouldn't use much +P ammo in an aluminum frame 1911 with the exception of the S&W Scandium frames. Still, a very moderate amount of +P in an aluminum frame gun shouldn't do any harm.