Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Candle annealing results

Fireformed 50 cases of .243 AI today from already twice fired Winchester brass. The loads were Sierra and Hornady 100 grain bullets with book max charges (for the parent .243) of RL-22 and H-4831 as listed in the respective manuals.

The cases had been annealed by the candle method outlined in John Barsness� book �Obsessions of a Rifle Loony� and also here:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth..._re_quenching_after_annealin#Post4503090

All 50 survived the transition without a single loss and they are all well filled out with sharp shoulders, so I anticipate the remaining 47 of this lot will do okay as well. Mule Deer had asked me to report back so I wanted to post this update.

Thanks for the report!

I Just shot 25 rounds today with virgin .325 WSM brass necked up to .358 (for a WSM), and annealed with the same method after necking up.

Got one split neck out of the bunch. Here's my question though, do you guys think you get fewer split necks by annealing before the first firing?

I wouldn't think so. The last thing the factories do to a case is anneal. Well, except for maybe the headstamp.

I annealed about a hundred 6ppc cases for my benchrest rifle because case neck tension was becoming hit or miss. You could feel the difference sizing and seating bullets. My gunsmith said to put them in a tray of water and heat the tops with a torch until they start to change color and tip them over into the water. I went to see Jim Borden with my benchrest rifle. He put on a barrel for me and I talked to him about my troubles... He said annealing brass was iffy. There's a rotary thing with 2 torches that does a fair job, but what I was doing would actually make things worse. I couldn't do it evenly. He said when the brass got that bad to chuck it and start again with fresh brass. I have not tried to anneal brass since. I figured shy of a $300 contraption, there wasn't a reliable way to do it.

http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

May I suggest that many gunsmiths too can learn new things?
Jim

Gunsmiths can be wrong. Anyone can be. I agree with the logic in that it stands a good chance that I ruined a batch of brass. I saw this article I posted. Beyond promoting an automated brass annealer it does give temps and manages to support Mr. Borden in that my tray of water method is inconsistent. Even the little machine they promote doesn't look like it's rotating the brass in the flame. That would appear to be inconsistent too.

The article says you have to heat the neck evenly to 650 to 700 degrees for 6 to 8 seconds. I bought the paint that changes color from the welding store. I used it and did the water bath deal, but I agree that I couldn't have possibly heated them evenly with a torch.


In the last 20+ years of shooting benchrest style and forming 6ppc and .22ppc cases from .220 Russian Lapua brass, I have never split a case. After many reloads, the problem I have is neck tension goes south. That's why I had the interest in annealing. I want to bring the spring back to the case necks.

I guess I don't understand the report, or what you are reporting? No if you fireform the remaining 47 cases without doing the candle trick and 4 split, we could make some sort of conclusion.

Never tried the candle method on medium to large capacity cases but it works quite well on small cases. My opinion is supported by the results on target and seating resistance while reloading, nothing else.

To prevent inconsistent heating, I've generally used Todd Kindler's annealing ring (Woodchuck Den), which mounts on your propane bottle and produces flames all around the case neck. Not sure if it helps, but it can't hurt. The way it works happens to have a lower flame temperature, as well, which seems to be more forgiving. HTH, Dutch.

Mule Deer, the whole idea behind the candle (vs. a torch) is that you can't over-heat the brass, correct?

Correct. As I've mentioned it was worked out by a metallurgist. I've gotten very good results over the years.

And as long as you hold the case by the head until it gets too hot to handle, you've got it heated enough, right?

But be careful, you can overheat your fingers. Those cases get "too hot to hold" real sudden like!

With me, it's past the "can" stage. If I can rig a way to use a drill and quickly get the cases in/out of the chuck and spin them over the flame, that'll be ideal.

That's true, I don't have a baseline to go on since I annealed them all and then posted on that. About all one can say is a general conclusion that "twice fired cases, after annealing, survive fireforming". I cannot say that they would not have survived had they not been annealed.

I do have some .243 cases fired ten times. Maybe I'll anneal a few of them and fireform the annealed and some unannealed ones and see if the annealed ones make it and the unannealed ones crack.

I can validate that Mule Deer's method works. I got a batch of once fired Federal 223 brass from a friend, all the same lot. I started getting a significant number of cracked necks (like 30%) on the 2nd reloads (3rd firing total), so I annealed the ones without cracks with a candle. I could feel the difference when I resized them, and they went 10 more firings without any neck cracks. After 10 firings I annealed them again, just because, and they are still going... I know it isn't AI'ing and fireforming, but it proved the process works to me.

I use a small propane torch to anneal brass but with a twist. I put the case base down in a bullet seating die and rotate it by hand slowly in the flame in a dimmly lit room, the die acts as a heat sink (no hot fingers). When the neck starts to change color i dump it and start another case.

I have also used this setup to anneal primed cases with no problems. The die never gets more than warm to the touch.

ti takes very little heat to effect a softening effect on cart. brass
( I am a metallurgist by trade, just not practicing in Columbus !)

Look at a military 30/06 and then follow the same light color change.
It's just so much easier and quicker to stand a bunch or cases in water and hit them with a light propane flame.
I bet even a candle lighter would be enough, just a bit more cost.

I can't safely advise one hold a case in your fingers. They WILL heat quickly!

The reason one stands the case in water is to Not heat the case at all. It may harden it enough to hasten cracking.
The old standard was 1/2 to 1/3 of the case under water.

But trying to heat a big batch with one torch and then cooling at once will result in spotty ( and different ) hardness.

I've just always changed brass. But then my big volume days were in several different M-1's so I full length sized.
Loaded a couple times and then replaced brass
YMMV