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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Per typical for the Internet a bunch of people have either never read what I wrote, or have misread it somehow.
The technique described was developed by Fred Barker, a retired metallurgist who writes frequently for Precision Shooting. He published the article in PS.
Fred worked out the method with heat-paint, which is one reason it works very well. The other reason is that the neck is constantly being turned constantly in the tip of the candle-flame, so it doesn't just get heated on one side, as often happens with a propane torch.
Since a bunch of people apparently feel free to comment on the technique without knowing anything about it, here it is:
1) Hold a cartridge case about halfway up the body with your fingertips (NOT the head of the case).
2) Hold the neck of the case at the tip of a candle's flame, turning it constantly.
3) When the case gets uncomfortable to hold, wipe it with a water-soaked cloth or paper towel. This stops the annealing process, long before any heat reaches the head of the case.
I can't recall how hot this gets the neck, but it's just hot enough to anneal without over-softening, as the old advice the heat the neck red-hot certainly does.
I have been using this technique for annealing for probably close to a decade, without any problems whatsoever, and like it a lot because it's simple and cheap. But a lot of handloaders like to make things complicated, I suspect because they use handloading as an excuse to get away from other stuff. If so, it's certainly a free country.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Fred Barker, a retired metallurgist What the hell does he know? I read about a guy who knew a guy who had a 3rd cousin that read on the internet to do it a different way. 
Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is.
dogzapper
After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box.
Italian Proverb
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810 |
Per typical for the Internet a bunch of people have either never read what I wrote, or have misread it somehow.
The technique described was developed by Fred Barker, a retired metallurgist who writes frequently for Precision Shooting. He published the article in PS.
Fred worked out the method with heat-paint, which is one reason it works very well. The other reason is that the neck is constantly being turned constantly in the tip of the candle-flame, so it doesn't just get heated on one side, as often happens with a propane torch.
Since a bunch of people apparently feel free to comment on the technique without knowing anything about it, here it is:
1) Hold a cartridge case about halfway up the body with your fingertips (NOT the head of the case).
2) Hold the neck of the case at the tip of a candle's flame, turning it constantly.
3) When the case gets uncomfortable to hold, wipe it with a water-soaked cloth or paper towel. This stops the annealing process, long before any heat reaches the head of the case.
I can't recall how hot this gets the neck, but it's just hot enough to anneal without over-softening, as the old advice the heat the neck red-hot certainly does.
I have been using this technique for annealing for probably close to a decade, without any problems whatsoever, and like it a lot because it's simple and cheap. But a lot of handloaders like to make things complicated, I suspect because they use handloading as an excuse to get away from other stuff. If so, it's certainly a free country. There is a problem with JB's method. To the anal-compulsive, gadget-hooked reloader (like me), this is way too simple and cheap. It might work, but where is the technical complexity and undecipherable instructions?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
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Well, you can always fret about the variables of neck wall thickness or whether or not it works for nickel plated cases, and puzzle about doing it with Winchester AA hulls.
Just tryin' to help out...
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Campfire Tracker
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I guess I don't understand the report, or what you are reporting? No if you fireform the remaining 47 cases without doing the candle trick and 4 split, we could make some sort of conclusion.
I resize 7mm Rem Mag brass to .257 Weatherby. With new brass I've had no problem. With once fired brass the shoulder collapsed on 3 in a row. After using this annealing method, I only lost one of the remaining 17.
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
- Albert Einstein
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Campfire Ranger
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So Mule Deer, can you or should you anneal nickeled brass?
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
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1) Hold a cartridge case about halfway up the body with your fingertips (NOT the head of the case). So, does this mean that if you hold the case at the head and wait until it's too hot to handle, you risk over-heating the brass?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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bigwhoop,
Yeah, you can anneal nickel-plated brass, but since the annealing temp of nickel is higher than for brass, the plating is likely to flake on the neck after a few loadings. But the nickel is really thin anyway. The main point is to anneal the brass underneath.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,052 |
Smokepole,
Yep. The head of the case shouldn't be heated at all.
Brass cartridge cases are designed to be softer toward the neck, and harder toward the base. The front end is softer to both hold the bullet relatively gently but consistently, and to seal the chamber against gas blow-back. The head of the case is both thicker and harder, both to hold overall pressure and the primer.
One of the interesting things about brass (a copper-zinc alloy) is that unlike most metals, it does NOT require quenching in a cooler liquid after heating to remain soft. If, for instance, you use the older method of standing cases in water and heating the necks with a torch, there is no reason to tip the cases over to "quench" the necks. If you just let them stand there, they'll end up with just the same hardness as if tipped over. And you won't have to dry out the inside of the cases.
But it's even easier to just wipe off the outside with a wet paper towel after heating them in a candle flame.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Regular
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MD- So, after reading all the glowing (ahem) reports above I decided to try this annealing thing. I had some cases that were starting to get a bit brittle at the end from firing. I used them in trying the three-step process described above. I found a candle, and got some paper towels pretty soggy with water. (In view of what happened, I can readily see why wet towels are needed.) Here's what I did: 1) Hold a cartridge case about halfway up the body with your fingertips (NOT the head of the case).OK, check. Did that. 2) Hold the neck of the case at the tip of a candle's flame, turning it constantly.Again, check. I kept things rolling right along. 3) When the case gets uncomfortable to hold, wipe it with a water-soaked cloth or paper towel. This stops the annealing process, long before any heat reaches the head of the case.OK, did that. When the flames started to melt my fingernails, I wiped the end of the case with the wet paper towel, and that put out the fire. It also apparently stopped the annealing process, and I don't think the brass head got hot at all. As advertised, the annealed end of the case is no longer brittle. But something seems amiss, with the case missing that certain je ne sais quoi that most good usable cases possess. I made a photo so you all can see what I mean. --Bob ![[Linked Image]](http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/33132/AA-annealed.jpg)
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Campfire Member
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vires,fortitudo,vigilantia
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Bullshooter,
Obviously, you made the mistake of trying the method in a saloon rather than a more controlled environment. Though I salute the spirit of experimentation!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Steel I know pretty well. Don't know Brass so well, at least as far as metallurgy. What temperature was Mr. Barker trying to achieve, in heating the brass?
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Smokepole, Yep. The head of the case shouldn't be heated at all. Well then, I guess I'm one of those who mis-read your method, I skipped right over the part about holding the case halfway up. My most humble apologies.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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better yet ...
hold it in you lips.
"wanna hear God laugh? Tell Him you have complete control now!"
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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better yet ...
hold it in you lips. I'd pay a dollar for a picture of you doing that.
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
- Albert Einstein
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,993
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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better yet ...
hold it in you lips. I've got a better idea, hold "this" in your lips.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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BullShooter Now that was funny 
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better yet ...
hold it in you lips. I've got a better idea, hold "this" in your lips. queer
"wanna hear God laugh? Tell Him you have complete control now!"
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