Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 338 FEDERAL...Popularity? Experience?

Haven't chronoed yet, hope to next Fri. Litterature suggested 49.0 grn LVR will push a 210 Scirocco about 2622 out of a 24 " tube. So I am loading 48.6 grn LVR and hopeful to be pushing the 200 grn BT between 2575-2600 from my 22 inch barrel. That's the load that I am getting 0.75" at 100. I'll try to post fps next week.

I really want to get a minimium of 2550 out of my 22" barrel for the 210 Scirocco for my elk hunt. If I can, I should have enough energy (2000-ish ft/lbs) out to about 300-350 yard to take an elk.

It offers enough advantage, especially in a short, handy rifle, that I'd take it over the other two in a heartbeat. Alas, as everyone's quick to call foul, it's not a choice.

That being the case, I'd likely follow the Keitheian hypotheses and opt for the bigger hole.

"Keithian hypothesis"... love it!

I didn't coin that... borrowed from Capstick.

K W: I didn't remember that statement from Capstick. I have several of his books + some of E Keiths works.

It didn't take but a few seconds to UNDERSTAND "Keithian Hypothesis." Made me smile.

It seems to me we have less GOOD WRITERS today. I am not saying we don't have any, just less. I enjoy J.B. and respect his opinions and experience. I remember quite a few who were writing in the 70s-90s, I miss some of them very much.

JWALL
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VEGETARIAN.........Indian Word For Poor Hunter

PRM: "If you need to go beyond 500 yds the 338 F is not the choice"

I think you'll find PAST 300 yds the 7 RM is leading in velocity and energy and trajectory. I am NOT a 7 RM fanatic, I haven't hunted a 7 mm for at least 4 yrs but I have hunted it a lot and killed plenty of game with it.

The last 3 yrs I have hunted a 300 WM exclusively. This yr. 011 I'll be hunting an 06 & Tikka 270 Win. SO don't conclude that I think the 7 RM is the end all or best of everything.

IMO the 338 F is terrific w/in 300 yds. "Keithian" holes and all.

JWALL
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VEGETARIAN.........Indian Word For Poor Hunter

Up where I hunt elk a 210 Scirocco II, or a 185 TTSX, will still be doing just under 2000fps at 500yds. Dead is dead. The 7 mag won't make it more dead. The 7 mag may have an advantage, but so would a 338 Lapua. But are they necessary, no. At lower elevations and/or longer ranges I would need something different than the Fed, until that's the case I'll be happy to hunt with the Fed.

PRM: I'm NOT arguing but are you sure about 500yds-2000fps w/338 dia. 185 gr bullet?

Again I'm not being critical, that seems optomistic w/those BCs. out of a short case.

JWALL
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VEGETARIAN........Indian Word For Poor Hunter

According to JBM, a 185 TTSX starting at 2750 will be doing 2010 at 500yds. That's at 9000' elevation. Obviously not quite the same as sea level. But I don't hunt elk at sea level. I haven't measured that personally, but I will confirm the ballistics this summer relative to a B-Plex or B&C reticle. Down at 500' elevation it would be closer to 1800fps, still enough to open, but certainly the outer edge.

prm: OKAY, I'll accept that but it does surprise me due the bore size and light weight, aka ballistic coefficient.

If it's doing that I'll change my mind. I am interested and hope you update us. Good Luck, seriously.

JWALL
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VEGETARIAN.........Indian Word For Poor Hunter

The Fed is not a long range rifle by any means, but there a couple of bullet/velocity combinations that are just enough such that I don't personally feel range limited by the rifle. It helps that it matches a B-Plex reticle almost perfectly too. Some bullets, the 210 Partition for example, just don't have the BC to make it happen that far out at lower elevations.

I've used the BP with my 338/06 to set things up to 500 with the 200's @ 2900 and or the 250's to 500 with speeds in the 2500 range.

BP's, Dotz, B&C's make things very easy!

I could easily run a Montana with a 6x36 Leo with dotz in it for all that moves here.

Be a heck of a yote rifle..<g>

Dober

Hmmmm. Now I'm perplexed. I checked the reference where I THOUGHT I remembered the "Keithian Hypotheses" term from -- a reprinted March '78 piece from Guns & Ammo by Capstick entitled "Oldies are Goodies." In that piece he actually references the "Askinian Hypotheses."

I'll have to keep looking for the reference, but I'm still pretty certain it came from Capstick, as did his succinct summation of Elmer's views:

"If you're fixin' to put a hole in something, make it a hole to remember."

That's always been one of my personal favorites.

I have one in a Tikka T3 lite. Accurate, not fussy and a rifle I don't worry about getting dinged up. Took it out last year, 3 shots 3 deer. No meat damage to speak of none went beyond 20 yards. Using Barnes 185 TSX and 8208XBR. Works for me. It's not a 7RM, and never expected it to be. If I want long range then the 300H&H with a 180 or 165 will do the trick. May not ever be really popular but the 338 Fedral does what I ask of it and have no plans of getting rid of it for something else.

PRM, chronoed this morning. The 48.6 LVR pushed the 200 grn BT to a consistent 2590 +/- 5 fps. 48.8 of LVR was all over the place for some reason (all the same bullets and oal) from 2566-2606. 49.0 of LVR avgerage 2610 +/-10.

Factory Fusion 200 grn averaged 2730. All of this was out of a 22 inch barrel. The shooting was bitter sweet as groups were al over the place.

A 200gr, .338-cal, bonded, boattail bullet at that velocity is a rather formidable projectile.

That is great speed with the factory stuff. Hard to beat. 49gn of LVR is still pretty light for the 200 I would think. Not sure if it was compressed or you saw pressure signs though. They don't have book loads for the 200, only the 210, 215 and 225. The max for the 210 Scirocco II is 49, but then it goes up to 52 for the 215 Sierra. The 210 SC II has a very long bearing surface and generates higher pressures I believe making it difficult to compare to others (in my experience it generates higher pressures than 210 Partitions or 210 TTSXs). I also find accuracy tends to get better towards the upper end of the pressures for any given load (if it's going to get better).

seattle...the Fusion is absolutely going to be my plan B if I can't get a load worked up that I like for elk this season.

prm...No pressure signs with the 49 LVR and 200 grn BT, and no compressing but filling up quick. I've heard horror stories of the 215 Sierra not expanding at 338F velocities. I think my next trip to Sportsman's I'll be pick up more 200 grn BT and some 210 TTSX to start working on. What's the length like on the TTSX? is it going to take up alot of case space, I've never loaded Barnes stuff before.

Don't overlook the 185gr TTSX, either. It has better BC than the 140gr 7mm, and only slightly less than the 150gr 7mm TTSX. With the penetration it provides, it may be a very good all-around bullet in that case.

I did try the 210 TTSX. It is a very long bullet (1.478") and really eats into the powder space. I could never get them to shoot well. The 185 TTSX was the easiest bullet to get to shoot well for me so far. Will be trying it in a second 338 Fed tomorrow. It may be lighter than the 200 BT (Silvertip), but it has a better BC and retains weight and penetrates much better. (Note: the 185 out of my Fed outpenetrated the 200 CT fired from my 338-06 when fired into phonebooks...FWIW).