Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters .260 Rem. vs 6.5 Creedmore, some thoughts.

Latest issue of Handloader.

Look for the misspelled "Creedmore" on the cover.

Doh!

Creedmoor!

My retailer has ordered 3 Savage LRP's and 600 Lapua brass. One rifle and 200 brass for me in 260 Rem, minds were changed when Lapua brass became available, to 260 Rem instead of the Creedmore.

I still find it interesting that when I contacted Hornady directly about 5 years ago to offer a load in the 260, they told me they never would because 6.5 doesn't sell enough to make it worth it.

Actually, they must have already had plans for the Creedmoor! Little white lies......

Yeah, I'm weaning myself off of Hornady ammo (other chamberings, obviously) due to their deliberate fracturing of the already tenuous 6.5mm market (and it appears that some dishonesty on their part can be added to the list). They aren't doing hunters or the industry, or even themselves, any favors by pimping the Creed-less. They may sell a little Creed-less ammo in the short-term, but they could have made as much money loading good .260 Rem ammo as they will make with their Creed-less venture folly. Wonder if their Creed-less folly is ego driven.

I like it. I call the 6.5Creedmore the 6.5 Worthless, but Creed-less is nice too. There is nothing it can do that can't be done better by the 260Rem or 6.5x284.

It's been a pet bitvh of mine for years that if ammo and gun companies would put some time into existing cartridges, the customers would be much better off. They should stop trying to sell us the next "bill of goods", and just make what we have better.

And another anticapitalist.

Glad here that they don't listen to boring people like yourself. Reminds me the USSR where everyone drove the same style of car.

I thought that's what they did - they made the .260 better.

How is less velocity and no better accuracy better?

As P.T. Barnum used to say "There's a sucker born every minute". 6.5 Creed-less/Worthless owners are suckers. The Creed-less was thought up by two guys looking to make a buck when all they had to do was make 260 ammo and guns better.

I don't really care one way or the other, I just wanted to see how emotionally tied people were to their babies.

Back in 1995 Jim Carmichel wrote an article about his 6.5 Bobcat and 6.5 Panther. The Bobcat, if you will remember is a 6.5X250 and the Panther was the 6.5X308. The Panther is now the 260 Remington. He wrote a real nice article with quite a bit of testing and range time for both cartridges. I need to check my Outdoor Life mags and get the month that it was published.
Butch

Just read the article and a good one it is.

Great points made by many. I am confident that quality 260 ammo starting w/proper brass, powder, and bullet, and used in quality rifles w/proper twist, will shoot neck and neck w/the other two, one only needs to see comparison's made by Zak Smith. He pitted the 47 vs Creed vs 260 all against each other in thorough testing, in accurate rifles w/top ammo. I myself have shot groups sub .2 moa in a custom 260, and even my Sako was a 1/2 MOA rifle.

I think somehow Butch many somehow contrived that Jim was responsible for the 260. As you know a round dating WAY back in PO Ackley's book, not to mention it was Asquare's round FIRST seeking Saami rights......Jim seemed to not correct history. It is interesting he does not take 'credit' for the Bobcat i.e. 6.5-250AI - Creed also.

It's all moot, as are many of the subtle differences in these rounds, but I do agree above that the industry should try perhaps to work together instead of diluting and confusing others in a fragmented niche market.

Many would be owners of these 6.5s likely feel 'why buy a rifle in a round that may well be obselete when I can buy a 270, '06, or '08 and get MORE choices in ammo and rifles than any 6.5?'

Instead of penalizing would be buyers w/higher ammo costs w/say yellow/green box ammo in 260 vs similar ammo in the 3 other's above, maybe the round would have actually thrived much more to a broader market than the remaining loonies that largely handload.

If Hornady 'Stays the course' over time it may get traction in the Creed, but only IMHO if they continue offering quality ammo at sane prices, w/good bullet options both for the competitive crowd, and the sportsman who largely are made up of deer hunters.

I truly believe they have an uphill battle as many lack confidence in the future of the round, given how big Green abandoned their '6.5 Panther'....LOL.

A potential lack of a future only makes a cartridge more attractive to a true loonie,LOL.

Jim wrote the article in 1995. A Square applied for SAMMI in 1996. You may wanta check that Cliff. The Bobcat was not an AI if you will check Jim's article and photos. You need to get your facts straight.
Butch

The Creedmoor was designed to shoot 140gr-class bullets at the same velocities as a .260 Rem only in a shorter package.

It does that. That is it's reason for being. Period.

Jim's article was published in Sept. 1995. If you will look at the prints in the article you will see the JGS reamer print was approved on 9-94 and ground 11-94.
Cliff, the print shows a 30deg. shoulder.
Butch

Butch, what I was trying to convey, is that the Bobcat and the Creedmoor are both based on the 250-3K case, not identical rounds. Sorry on that confusion in my wording.

Re: my comment about who had the rights w/Saami, yes Jim wrote about the Bobcat and Panther PRIOR to a 260 being approved by Saami, yet LATER when Remington got the 260 introduced, Jim received credit for inventing it.

From what I know, ASQUARE applied first to Saami, but Remington somehow came in later, and for whatever reason, Remington received approval. No matter how and why that happened, many gave Jim credit for inventing the round, citing his work on the Bobcat and Panther article. He never seemed to correct those who were unaware that the round had a history LONG before. I think Jim was completely aware of the facts, and was planting the seed in his writing, about the virtues of a mid sized 6.5, as he likely was 'in the know' of the soon to be released 260.

When I was midstream in the build of my 6.5-308, I got wind of what Remington had in the works and I contacted Remington (in 95) - they said, 'We cannot confirm nor deny'.....so I contacted the Lonoke, AR plant, I was able to get a 'print' of their round, and compared it to a 6.5-308 reamer print Chris at Pac-Nor gave me before my rifle was done, as I wanted to know if the new 260 ammo would work in my rifle. That is also what I told Rem when I asked and that's when they admitted/and ONLY said, 'can't confirm nor deny' as I questioned about running their ammo in my chamber.

Read a post here on the topic in 2004 where JB chimes in.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/274561

I shoot both the 260 Rem and the 6.5x47. When I recently spent a bit over $4k to build a custom LR hunting rifle. I went with the 6.5x47. Here's why.

260 Rem: 20 deg shoulder

1. Prep brass
2. Load, Shoot, Load, Shoot, TRIM
3. Load, Shoot, Load, Shoot, TRIM
etc, etc

6.5x47:30 deg shoulder

1. Load, Shoot, Load, Shoot, Load, Shoot, Load, Shoot, Load, Shoot, Load, Shoot, Load, Shoot, Load, Shoot, Load, Shoot, Load, Shoot, Load, Shoot, Load, Shoot, etc, etc, etc

I did not forget to include TRIMMING with the 6.5x47. I've never needed to trim the cases.

And my hunting load uses Rel 17 pushing the excellent 140 gr Nosler Partition to 2865 fps.

The small primer whoops butt on both the 260 and 6.5 CM.

Nuf said!

Alan

Except in real cold, say single digits and under.