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#5183304 - 04/26/11 Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS."
RickBin Offline


Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 06/10/00
Posts: 9211
Loc: Los Angeles, California
John Barsness's (Mule Deer) latest exclusive column, "WIND FLAGS ," is on its way to your Inbox. If you haven't received this or previous versions, simply PM me (RickBin), and you'll be on board for future monthly columns.

Here are links to the last few columns:

"Scope Height"

"Rifle Brass"

"Getting The Most Out Of Your .30-06"

"Affordable Detachable Scope Mounts"

"Big Game Scopes"

Don't forget to check out John's (and Eileen's grin) other stuff at http://www.riflesandrecipes.com.

Many thanks, as usual, John!
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Rick Bin
24hourcampfire.com

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#5194517 - 04/30/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: RickBin]
Ken Howell Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 29348
My shootin' days are long past, so my interest in range flags is altogether academic. FWIW2U, I can add very, very little from my leaky ol' memory. I suspect that these li'l nuggets will jibe neatly (pun intended) with JB's observations.

Somewhere in the middle of the midden that I live in, there's a large sheet of paper a "wind map" that Homer Powley drew.

He stationed a bunch of helpers behind safe barricades at several in-between mid-range distances, then fired over their heads at the target beyond them.

As the bullet crackled past each mid-range observer, that fellow recorded the direction and the speed of the wind at his location, at that instant.

Homer's "map" shows that the wind was blowing every whichaway, at different speeds, between the muzzle and the target.

A wind flag fluttering at every ten to fifty yards between the muzzle and a distant target is indeed an interesting sight to see!

And an old (1950ish) photography magazine once ran a photograph of flags on opposite sides of the street rippling briskly in directly opposite directions at the same time.

So much for the assumption that a wind from 90 to the left is always and only at 90 or from the left all the way out to that far target.
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Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.




















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#5195574 - 04/30/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: Ken Howell]
Al_Nyhus Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 900
Loc: Lower Dakota Territory
Here's an example:

These are my flags that I use for BR competition, set up in my back yard, spaced 5 ft. apart. They are fitted with my own double roller bearing heads, so they respond instantly to any change in wind direction.

Wind speed was from 7 'oclock and approx. 8-10 mph.

First pic is as you'd expect to see..the flags showing a steady 7 o'clock condition:



This photo was taken immediately after the first, with no 'on your body' perceptible change in wind direction and/or speed.



Not only have flags 2,3,5 and 6 moved to indicate a pretty dramatic shift in wind direction....flag #4 is now indicating a near complete headwind situation.

Other than Jim Carmichael, JB is the only 'mainstream' gun writer that gives credence to the use of flags for load work, etc.

Food for thought..... smile -Al
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#5195862 - 04/30/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: Al_Nyhus]
Ken Howell Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 29348
Shooting at 5001,000 yd, I've often wondered how many invisible, dustless "dust devils" might be swirling out there between my muzzle and that "death row" prairie dog.
_________________________
"Good enough" isn't.

Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.




















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#5210459 - 05/05/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: Ken Howell]
Ken Howell Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 29348
Quote:
Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS."

What? Ne'er yet a question for John?

Gee, John, I didn't mean to hijack your thread!

My sincerest apologies, ol' Pard!
_________________________
"Good enough" isn't.

Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.




















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#5210786 - 05/05/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: Ken Howell]
xphunter Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 1021
Loc: Wyoming
John,
Not a question, but a big thumbs up on a job well done.
Wind is the biggest Achilles heel of precision shooting at any distance.
_________________________
Ernie "The Un-Tactical"


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#5211071 - 05/05/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: xphunter]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 37010
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
xphunter,

Thanks!

Figuring the wind without flags is a really interesting process, even with one of the little electronic wind-gauges available today. Prairie dog shooting is one of the best teachers there.
_________________________
John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#5211075 - 05/05/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: Ken Howell]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 37010
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
Ken,

Naw, you didn't hijack anything.

Evidently I covered the subject fairly well!
_________________________
John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#5214364 - 05/06/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: Mule Deer]
xphunter Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 1021
Loc: Wyoming
Agreed!
Ernie

Originally Posted By: Mule Deer
xphunter,
Thanks!
Figuring the wind without flags is a really interesting process, even with one of the little electronic wind-gauges available today. Prairie dog shooting is one of the best teachers there.
_________________________
Ernie "The Un-Tactical"


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#5217238 - 05/07/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: Mule Deer]
crossfireoops Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/06/05
Posts: 47371
Loc: Southeastern AZ
Really ENJOYED the article, Seor.

GTC
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-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain













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#5217267 - 05/07/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: xphunter]
butchlambert1 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 5537
Loc: Poetry, Texas
Sorry I'm slow getting to this thread. Being a BR shooter I really know the value of good windflags. I also sell the BRT windflags from Australia. They were used by the Aussie team to win the World BR Championships in South Africa. Pictured below is one of our flags in Iraq. The US Military uses them in some places to help in launching their drones.

As was mentioned above, put out 5 flags and they can all be doing something different. Al's pics are great. The wind is hardly blowing and it makes it easy to see what the wind is doing.

The BRT flags have double ball bearings in the pivot and the propeller. The propeller on the BRT flags are primarily used to tell you when the wind picks up or lets off. They are very responsive. They are not good wind velocity indicators as they move so easily. That is the purpose of the tails that are made from sail cloth. They don't flop in the wind, they just move up and down depending on wind velocity.
Thanks for listening to a sales pitch.
Butch

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#5217281 - 05/07/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: butchlambert1]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 37010
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
Those a real nicely-designed flags!
_________________________
John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#5217313 - 05/07/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: Mule Deer]
GregW Online   content
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 08/03/05
Posts: 9810
Loc: Southern Arizona
Great article John...
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-Greg

arizonabackcountryguideservice.com

desertswarmbees.com

Booking 2015 trophy coues deer hunts now!


If you want to be someone, just do it. There are very few things that will not be a success with proper planning, hard work, and stubbornness.

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#5217652 - 05/07/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: GregW]
butchlambert1 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 5537
Loc: Poetry, Texas
A picture of 5 flags, telescoping stands, ground spikes, level and an aluminum carrying case. The aluminum case is 5"X11"X15". Very easy to take to the range.


Butch

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#5223367 - 05/09/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: butchlambert1]
super T Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 07/06/06
Posts: 1568
John, I agree with the others great article. It's a must read if shooting good groups is a goal. I also agree that one seldom sees wind flags at the local ranges, even though most there are trying to shoot good groups. I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that mostly because of your article we will begin to see more talk about flags and begin to see more of them at the ranges.

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#5223404 - 05/09/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: RickBin]
Jim in Idaho Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/29/01
Posts: 16990
Loc: Idaho, USA
Sounds like a great article, I'd love to read it!

The "Wind Flags" link in the first post goes to the December 2009 article on "Cartridge Efficiency".
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Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!

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#5224113 - 05/10/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: Jim in Idaho]
rob p Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 5731
Loc: rhode island
When I decided I was going to shoot benchrest, I bought 6 second hand Smiley Hensley wind flags. I put out 4 on the hundred yard range at my club and marvel at how many times the wind can change in 100 yards. The guys at my club refer to them as "wind fags" but I am convinced in their value and won't burn off ammunition without them.
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#5237062 - 05/14/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: rob p]
Wally Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/06/03
Posts: 517
Loc: 4 corners
I would love to read it myself!



Steve

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#5237666 - 05/14/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: Wally]
JimHundley Online   content
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/22/04
Posts: 733
Loc: Texas
me too !

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#5266250 - 05/24/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: JimHundley]
Jerryv Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/01/06
Posts: 470
Loc: Minnesota
Try this one:

Wind Flags


I have a question related to wind drift more than wind flags. Does a bullets ballistic coefficient have much effect on wind drift? For example, will a flat base bullet drift more than a boat tail under similar conditions?

Jerry
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#5266263 - 05/24/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: Jerryv]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 37010
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
Ballisic coefficient and velocity are the two factors in wind drift. Everything else being equal, a boattail bullet will drift less.
_________________________
John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#5266607 - 05/24/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: Jerryv]
Wally Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/06/03
Posts: 517
Loc: 4 corners
Jerry,
Thanks for the link!

Steve

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#5311069 - 06/07/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: Wally]
Mar336 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 06/16/09
Posts: 333
Now the question is, which flags to get?

I'm not a BR shooter. Just a hunter/casual match shooter. Since I often shoot on my lunch break, I'd like something that sets up and breaks down easily and can fit into some kind of case for transport. Most of my shooting currently is under 150yrds but I'm going to be joining a range that has 300yrds now that the mighty Mississippi has put my go to range under 10' of water.

How many flags should I look at using for < 150yrds and how many when shooting at 300yrds? Again, quick set-up is important so I guess I'm looking for the minimum number of flags that would give a decent idea of what the wind is doing.

Those BRT flags look really nice. I also found these that looked nice http://www.killoughshootingsports.com/index.php/wind-flags/keeney-small-wind-flags.html Any other suggestions?


Edited by Mar336 (06/07/11)

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#5313249 - 06/08/11 Re: Ask John Barsness Questions About "WIND FLAGS." [Re: Mar336]
Al_Nyhus Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 900
Loc: Lower Dakota Territory
Mar336: Butch Lambert's flags are slick.

Dave Halblom at Flying Fish Fundamentals also makes a nice flag. http://www.flyingfishfundamentals.com/index.htm

Good shootin'. -Al
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