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#5256003 - 05/20/11 01:01 PM 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage?
Dusty246 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 833
Loc: NJ
Looking at a Rem 700 SPS Tactical with a 20" 223 barrel and like the rifle and price. What am I giving up with the short barrel in speed as I'm also considering a SPS Stainless in 24"? Does a little 223 case need a longer than 20" barrel? It will be used for woodchucks to 300 yds.


Edited by Dusty246 (05/20/11 01:02 PM)

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#5256043 - 05/20/11 01:12 PM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: Dusty246]
Verwoest_P_A Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 426
If your only shooting out to 300 yards 20" is more than you would need. I dare say that even a 16" barrel would give you enough velocity for shooting out to 300 yards (noise is another story). The difference in velocity between a 20" and 24" 223 barrel is prettly slim.

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#5256060 - 05/20/11 01:17 PM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: Verwoest_P_A]
Dusty246 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 833
Loc: NJ
That's good to know as I like the feel of the little Tactical and the fact that it has a 1-9 twist.

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#5256136 - 05/20/11 01:43 PM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: Dusty246]
ingwe Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 12/19/08
Posts: 50566
Loc: Southwestern Montucky
Nope...not giving up anything in that Bbl...buy it and rock on!
_________________________
" I told my Pap and Mam I was comin' to the mountains…Mother Gue I said,the Rocky Mountains are the marrow of the world. And by God I was right."
Delgue

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#5256359 - 05/20/11 02:52 PM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: ingwe]
MontanaMarine Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 09/25/01
Posts: 7964
Loc: Canyon Ferry, Montana
I'd take the 20" 1/9 over the 24" 1/12 without hesitation.
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Shane

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#5257688 - 05/20/11 08:38 PM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: MontanaMarine]
bgold Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 485
Loc: Missouri
Here too...

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#5257826 - 05/20/11 09:32 PM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: Dusty246]
Rancho_Loco Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 17517
Loc: MONTANA
I have one of those rifles, nice little rig, you won't lose anything with the 20" barrel. TAC and 70 grain VLD's are a nice combo, and gophers hate thr 50 gr. BT's out of it.


Stock is kinda cheezy, I bedded it and laid in some reinforced epoxy into the forend to stiffen it. An A2 is on the list to replace it..
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Originally Posted By: derby_dude
A rifle using standard velocity ammo with a suppressor tend to be louder than without the suppressor.

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#5257900 - 05/20/11 10:05 PM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: Rancho_Loco]
Calif. Hunter Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 3054
Loc: OC, CA
I have an older Savage 110 "4x4" model in .223 with a 20-inch barrel, and found myself shooting over prairie dogs at a lasered 287 yards, sighted in one and a half inches high at 100 yards, holding over their heads. This was with a 40 gr Ballistic Tip and a max load of H-335. It shot a lot flatter than I expected.
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“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.” George Orwell

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#5258070 - 05/21/11 03:30 AM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: Calif. Hunter]
Steelhead Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 66704
Loc: Retired
Never knew there was a reason to go much longer.
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20 years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs. Please God, don't take Kevin Bacon.


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#5258465 - 05/21/11 07:19 AM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: Rancho_Loco]
Mark R Dobrenski Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 04/19/01
Posts: 28277
Loc: Bozeman, Montana
Rancho-your rig will perk with the 70's?

Dober
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"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy

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#5258472 - 05/21/11 07:20 AM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: Dusty246]
Mark R Dobrenski Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 04/19/01
Posts: 28277
Loc: Bozeman, Montana
Dusty-many many moons ago I was cutting 223's to 21", IMO it's the way to go. If I were you I'd be all over that rig! It'll be a rock star for you.

Dober
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"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy

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#5258681 - 05/21/11 08:35 AM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: Mark R Dobrenski]
Rancho_Loco Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 17517
Loc: MONTANA
Originally Posted By: Mark R Dobrenski
Rancho-your rig will perk with the 70's?

Dober


Over 25 gr. of TAC, very nicely..
_________________________
Originally Posted By: derby_dude
A rifle using standard velocity ammo with a suppressor tend to be louder than without the suppressor.

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#5258683 - 05/21/11 08:36 AM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: Rancho_Loco]
Rancho_Loco Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 17517
Loc: MONTANA
Ugly Tikka shoots the same load lights out, too..
_________________________
Originally Posted By: derby_dude
A rifle using standard velocity ammo with a suppressor tend to be louder than without the suppressor.

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#5258722 - 05/21/11 08:49 AM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: Rancho_Loco]
Mark R Dobrenski Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 04/19/01
Posts: 28277
Loc: Bozeman, Montana
which bullet and what twists?

Dober
_________________________
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy

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#5258782 - 05/21/11 09:06 AM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: Mark R Dobrenski]
Rancho_Loco Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 17517
Loc: MONTANA
VLD..

The Rem is a 9 twist, ugly Tikka is an 8.
_________________________
Originally Posted By: derby_dude
A rifle using standard velocity ammo with a suppressor tend to be louder than without the suppressor.

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#5259613 - 05/21/11 02:28 PM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: Rancho_Loco]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 33429
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
My Bushmaster AR-15 has a 16" barrel and it has done PD's in just fine at 400+ yards.
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John

The ultimate concern of a rifle loony is rifle trivia. And why not? What else is as distracting from the really important concerns of everyday life?

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#5259834 - 05/21/11 03:44 PM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: Dusty246]
aalf Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/02/07
Posts: 7209
Loc: S.W. Wis.
I've got a 17 1/2" Rock 8 twist that runs 75's at 2900 even. I've killed out to 850.

I wouldn't worry about a 20.....

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#5259844 - 05/21/11 03:51 PM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: aalf]
ratsmacker Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 6869
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
The M16A1s and A2s are 20", which would seem to suggest that the .223 is just about right with that length.

That's how I look at it, anyway............
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You can roll a turd in peanuts, dip it in chocolate, and it still ain't no damn Baby Ruth.

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#5265229 - 05/23/11 02:03 PM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: ratsmacker]
THOMASMAGNUM Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 7459
Loc: Arizona
My new toy-in-progress is a 20" .223ai, to me it seems the perfect fit.

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#5265307 - 05/23/11 02:29 PM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: THOMASMAGNUM]
Dusty246 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 833
Loc: NJ
Alot of talk about the 223 AI lately. What kind of speeds are we talking about over the 223? I understand the advantage of the straighter case for less trimming as well as the ease of fire forming. thanx.

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#5265615 - 05/23/11 04:28 PM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: Dusty246]
VarmintGuy Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 6592
Loc: SW Montana
Dusty246: I shoot a number of 223's including a Remington 700 VTR with 20" of rifled barrel.
It performs VERY well - in the field and at the range.
Yes - you will give up some velocity compared to a 24 or 26 inch barreled 223 but not a lot that would make it hard for 300 yard hits.
I checked out the Rifle you are interested in via the new 2,011 Remington catalog and that model has a 1 in 9" twist barrel.
I have killt Prairie Dogs out past 300 yards with my 20" barreled 223 many times.
You should do well on Woodchucks.
Best of luck with whichever model you choose.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

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#5265617 - 05/23/11 04:28 PM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: Dusty246]
ingwe Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 12/19/08
Posts: 50566
Loc: Southwestern Montucky
Basically 10% increase in perfoprmance...about 300 fps...I love them...got two of them now...
_________________________
" I told my Pap and Mam I was comin' to the mountains…Mother Gue I said,the Rocky Mountains are the marrow of the world. And by God I was right."
Delgue

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#5265683 - 05/23/11 04:52 PM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: ingwe]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 33429
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
Tom,

So you're getting 4100+ with a 40?
_________________________
John

The ultimate concern of a rifle loony is rifle trivia. And why not? What else is as distracting from the really important concerns of everyday life?

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#5265978 - 05/23/11 06:26 PM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: Mule Deer]
ingwe Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 12/19/08
Posts: 50566
Loc: Southwestern Montucky
So far as you know...... whistle
_________________________
" I told my Pap and Mam I was comin' to the mountains…Mother Gue I said,the Rocky Mountains are the marrow of the world. And by God I was right."
Delgue

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#5266020 - 05/23/11 06:42 PM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: ingwe]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 33429
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
Just askin'.

My latest .223 is a 22" Icon. With the max load of Benchmark (28.0 grains) listed by both Nosler and Hodgdon, it's getting right around 3800 with 40-grain Ballistic Tips on an Oehler chronograph. Which is just about both Nosler and Hodgdon suggest for that load.
_________________________
John

The ultimate concern of a rifle loony is rifle trivia. And why not? What else is as distracting from the really important concerns of everyday life?

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#5266136 - 05/23/11 07:24 PM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: Mule Deer]
ingwe Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 12/19/08
Posts: 50566
Loc: Southwestern Montucky
Thats not that heavy varmint model is it???

You know I like Icons...but I like the sporter weight Mo' betta....


Twist???
_________________________
" I told my Pap and Mam I was comin' to the mountains…Mother Gue I said,the Rocky Mountains are the marrow of the world. And by God I was right."
Delgue

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#5266213 - 05/23/11 07:48 PM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: ingwe]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 33429
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
Yeah, or what passes for the HV model. It's actually a medium-weight fluted barrel. It has a heavy scope and rings on it right now (3-15x Weaver Super Slam and Warne Maximas) and still only weighs around 10-1/2. With a typical 3-10x and Talley LW's it would go under 10.
_________________________
John

The ultimate concern of a rifle loony is rifle trivia. And why not? What else is as distracting from the really important concerns of everyday life?

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#5266713 - 05/24/11 04:48 AM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: Mule Deer]
ingwe Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 12/19/08
Posts: 50566
Loc: Southwestern Montucky
You will need to smoke that barrel on PDs...

just sayin.... grin
_________________________
" I told my Pap and Mam I was comin' to the mountains…Mother Gue I said,the Rocky Mountains are the marrow of the world. And by God I was right."
Delgue

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#5267239 - 05/24/11 08:36 AM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: ingwe]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 33429
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
Yeah, I've got it all sighted-in and ready to go. Took it down to Broadus last weekend, along with two other rifles, but due to weather only got to shoot one afternoon, and my .221 took priority, due to a new 2-ounce trigger that needed testing.

But there are other places to shoot dogs!
_________________________
John

The ultimate concern of a rifle loony is rifle trivia. And why not? What else is as distracting from the really important concerns of everyday life?

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#5267297 - 05/24/11 08:57 AM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: Mule Deer]
THOMASMAGNUM Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 7459
Loc: Arizona
Funny little world be live in....
I just bought a take off barrel in .223 AI from a member here in Broadus, MT.


I had Dave Van Horn here in Az. fit it last and am just waiting on my McMillan to wrap things up.

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#5284353 - 05/29/11 05:53 PM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: THOMASMAGNUM]
222Rem Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 01/26/05
Posts: 7778
Loc: Eastern, OR
Originally Posted By: THOMASMAGNUM
My new toy-in-progress is a 20" .223ai, to me it seems the perfect fit.


Me too-------with a 1-9 twist. I've also got a 22" with a 1-12 twist. So far the fire form loads register about the same velocity in both rifles, but I'm a LOT more excited about the shorter guns potential with the faster twist.
_________________________

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance,and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-- Winston Churchill

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#5284830 - 05/29/11 08:53 PM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: Dusty246]
Ackman Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 1090
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By: Dusty246
Looking at a Rem 700 SPS Tactical with a 20" 223 barrel and like the rifle and price. What am I giving up with the short barrel in speed as I'm also considering a SPS Stainless in 24"? Does a little 223 case need a longer than 20" barrel? It will be used for woodchucks to 300 yds.


A 20" barrel won't be as fast as a 24" barrel, it just won't. Even with .223 capacity extra barrel length has an effect on velocity. The difference can be more or less depending on which two barrels. In practical terms there won't be a real big difference. The 223 truck gun has a 20" barrel..... load is a 403895. A 223 with heavy 26" barrel.....most accurate 40gr load in that one is doing 4010. Both are 14" twist. I haven't compared the two with heavier bullets......the truck gun only sees 40's and has never been chrono'd with anything heavier, the longer barrel is shot with 50's.

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#5316812 - 06/09/11 06:30 AM Re: 20" 223 barrel a disadvantage? [Re: Ackman]
keith Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 02/08/02
Posts: 4293
I'm not normal, I'd take the 24" barrel for chucks, Lapua brass, Rem 7 1/2's, 50g noslers, N-133, and would blister 3500+ fps.

N-135 with the 55g Sierra lead tip blitz just grenades a huge chuck or coyote at 3450+ fps, you will need tough brass and a thick cup primer...you will be very happy. This load is so distructive, you will not believe it. You can hit a coyote way back in the stomach, he will be laying right where he was hit.



Edited by keith (06/09/11 06:34 AM)

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