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140 VLD berger would you use for long range shot 400 yards for elk?

i would just shoot accubonds vld seem a touch soft for elk in that caliber.

No. I do not like the Berger theory/design of fragmentation. I have the opposite idea, that a hunting bullet should expand but hold together. I would go with one of the bonded, partitioned or mono metal bullets. Plain old cup and core bullets would be my choice before the Berger VLD. But some like the Bergers and take elk with the one you are talking about. So-----------?

8mmwapiti

absolutely!

Dober

Put me in the "No, thanks" column.

I have never used Berger bullets for any big game hunting but I have a friend that used them while hunting mule deer and he did not like them for "fragging" up. I myself will continue to use Nosler Partitions, TBBC or Swift A Frame bullets on my big game animals. Nosler Accubond is a great long range bullet! It has stayed together on the wet news print test we have done at the farm. The B.C. and S.D. are very good on this bullet.

I know I'm jumping into a mess by saying this but you should really be thinking of the animal before you shoot long range. 140 grains at that range???
If you don't hit the elk perfectly through the lungs you'll lose him.
Elk are big animals, and 400 yrds is a long way. If he doesn't know you are there, and at 400 yrds how could he unless you where screaming out loud, get closer.
I won't get into a discussion as to what is an adequate caliber for elk but suffice it to say the more elk you kill the more you realize that perfect shots are rare and animals that stand perfectly still while you aim even more rare. Be fair to the animal and get closer. get as close as you can, and if you're too far after trying to get closer avoid the temptation to shoot you'll be a better hunter !!

I like Berger Bullets but don't think I'd go that route with the 6.5-284, and I have one that I like a lot. Elk are big and tough and don't give it up without a fight. I'd want tougher bullets in a 6.5-284. I'd probably want a tougher caliber. From my arsenal, I'd pick my 7mm Rem Mag, .300 Win Mag or .338-284 before the 6.5-284. More bullet, more energy, more penetration, more room for error with less chance of messing up. My .375 H&H with 235 gr. bullets would be a good choice and on the other end of the spectrum. Don't know if I would choose it, but it is a valid option.

VLD's in a heavier bullet, heavier caliber would make more sense...

IMHO, of course...

DF

Sectional density is the biggest factor in killing any critter. If the bullets are of similar construction and SD, then caliber shouldn't factor into the discussion about killing elk or deer at 400yds.

The 6.5x284 will kill any deer or elk out at the ranges stated, because the 270 and 30-06 have been doing the same for nearly a century. In all reality, the higher BC values of the 6.5 140gr bullets probably make it a better 400yd gun than cartridges alot of people consider for those ranges.

The 6.5 caliber guns [6.5x55, 260rem, 6.5x47, 6.5Creedmore, 6.5x284, 6.5-06] all kill why beyond their paper ballistics because they carry their energy with high effiency and don't beat up the shooter with recoil. They make it easier to hit the target at longer ranges, and you can't kill what you can't hit. The same reason the 260 and 6.5x284 are so popular at 1000yd matches is the same reason they will work well at 400 yds on critters. They hit what they're pointed at and they don't beat you to death with recoil.

I would have no trouble using a 6.5x284 for elk. That being said, still not a fan of VLD's just because none of my guns really seem to like them...

I think that if I was going elk hunting with 1 of my .264" bore rifles, I'd strongly consider the 140 grain Partition and aim to break bone. I haven't hunted elk much, but have seen them go a long way with a bullet through the lungs, usually dying in a place that makes them a PITA to recover.

I'm not Berger shooter, so can't comment on how good or bad a choice it is, but feels confident that the 140 grain Partition will generally shoot straight and will always break bone.

JEff

In my 6.5-284 the Berger 140 is my bullet of choice for killing elk.

No Idea On The Berger's. But the 120 TSX will Do The Trick.

Will everyone who has actually killed an elk with a Berger and has commented on this thread please raise their hand?

Am expecting some chirps here. Carry on.

To 400 yards, I would want to use a Swift Scirroco. I have done a lot of damage with the 270 130's (at least 25 head) and would expect same results with the 6.5. Those bullets have a very high BC as well.

I would bet the bullet traveling thru the lungs was some super duper premium bullet instead of a Cup-n-core bullet. Thousands of elk die every year to stick and string hunters and they shoot them thru the lungs.

As long as up close ranges are not in the plan of action, I would think a 140gr Gameking, Hot-Cor, Interlock, SST, or Accubond would work just fine at 400yds on elk.

I realize from a ballistic point of view that B.C. is very important regarding bullet delivery to the target. But for killing power, don't forget the theory about mass, momentum and the Taylor Index. Elmer Keith was big on that side of the equation. Shock effect and tissue damage from the hi vel side of the house with the Weatherby school also has merit and a large following. I guess it's prudent not to take either to the extreme, but have some of both. Light bullets on a big animal pushes the shock effect theory pretty far, but animals seem to drop dead. I guess it's what one if comfortable with and what works in that hunter's hands as a function of individual hunting style and skill. One camp is not likely to convert the other, no more than Keith convinced JOC that he was right and Jack was wrong. The discussion outlived them both and keeps on going like the Energiser Bunny.

IMHO,

DF

[quote=dmsbandit]Sectional density is the biggest factor in killing any critter. If the bullets are of similar construction and SD, then caliber shouldn't factor into the discussion about killing elk or deer at 400yds.

So a 70 grain .224 bullet is a good elk bullet at 400 yards?

Sorry have to call you an that !

Bigger critters, bigger calibers for me. SD, BC, kinetic energy are physics calculations and can be bent to make either side of the argument. Pracical experience says better bullet construction, heavier bullets per caliber, larger caliber for the imperfect "real" hunting world.

As far as the Berger hunting VLD's other have had tremendous success with them. I would stay with the bonded, partitioned, or monolithic expanding bullets for something as big as Elk or larger. Mistakes happen Elk bones are big make arrangements for it.

And, they usually have to wait until the target animal bleeds down before trailing and trying to find him. No bang plop with stick and string unless one happens to hit the spine. I guess I see the draw to that type hunting, but for me, it's gunpowder and a bullet...

Different strokes for different folks...

DF

It was 1979 and I was really fledgling,but I recall the disussion with old John Z out of Durango,on a hunt,while we were horseback....(John had a Grand Slam,trips to Africa,NA game,and extensive elk experience.)His favorite rifle was a M70 in 264 Win Mag that he had used on "everything";used to toss it airborne in to the tent.....I'd wince...

He was in his mid 60's at the time...the conversation was nothing profound,but I never forgot it,either.

I asked John what he thought of the 264 and 270 on elk..."They are good", he said.

How about the 7 mag and the 30/06?

"Better",came the reply....

So how about the 300 magnums?

"Better still...if you can shoot them".