Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting 6.5x284

Question - How the hell do you know what the range is when you are loading up ammo?

Are you willing to pass if you get a 10 yard shot and have a C&C bullet in the chamber?

Just curious �

Sorta wondering the same thing....

Never knew in advance..what the distance was gonna be....

If you're watching a ridgeline, meadow, clearing, field, etc you can have an idea if the animal will be shot at distances measured in 100s of yards and not a 100 feet. The OP asked about 400yds, not 40yds. At those ranges C-N-C bullets work fine on any game. You don't need a GMX, TSX,or E-tip to kill at 400yds. Houndreds of thousands of dead elk and moose say so.

Besides, I doubt modern C-N-C bullet would blow up when started at 2800-2900fps no matter what bone they hit. That's about all a 6.5x284 is going to get from a 24" barreled gun when using a 140gr bullet.

I like my rifles, shotguns, etc.

Just a thought about the "Stick and String" crowd.

A well placed, heavy, arrow with the right broadhead that is scary sharp kills incredibly fast. I do not need to worry about changing broadheads for different ranges. One Zwickey Delta, Bear Razor, Woodsman, Snuffer, or Magnus, etc. will kill them all, quickly. Most animals fall within sight. Six to Eight inches of razor blade through the heart and lungs will do that, though.

Getting close to your target game animal is a big part of the fun and challenge of bowhunting.

Don't knock it until you try it.

Having �an idea� isn�t a guarantee. I�ve sat where the closest shot expected was 400 yards and turned down a shot at 25 feet. Ended up taking one at around 40 yards a few seconds later.

AT ten yds, you should be able to put the bullet whereever you want and NOT hit a bone you're worried about. A shot in the neck from a 357mag handgun would drop an elk at that range.

2 yrs ago, I shot a whitetail buck at 30yds with a 45cal XTP HP at 2100+ fps. That bullet is only rated for 1600FPS and it shattered the shoulder knuckle, destroyed the lungs, liver, and 1 kidney before becoming lodged in the front of the opposite hindquarter. It went thru 3' of deer AFTER breaking the hardest bone in that deers' body. Do you really think a C-N-C rifle bullet would do less when it's used INSIDE it's velocity rating?

I blew up a .308 165 grain Sierra CNC on a SC deer shoulder knuckle last year at .308 win velocities. Deer was 65 paces from me. I shot at it through a small hole in the cover. It hit the ground hard, then popped right back up a took off. Luckily, it was to the open field side of my stand and I was able to hit it with a second shot and drop it. The first bullet simply flatened on the bone causing a bilateral fracture on the knuckle and a 3/4 fracture of the lower part of the shoulder bone with little to no penetration. So much for CNC bullets on Elk bone up close at high velocity?

.45XTP HP at 2100 fps.

And that was with a low SD, low BC, heavy for caliber, bullet. Interesting.......

I shoot it out of my Savage Muzzleloader for deer. I get most of my shots under 100yds, but they do group well at 200yds too. 1.5-2" groups at 200yds is the norm, but the drop is about 20", so they need alittle "kentucky" elevation if you would be used at that range.

In a word, it �depends�.

I shot my first elk with a 162g Hornady Interlock at about 110 yards. Calculated impact velocity was 2804fps based on an estimated 3000fps MV. The bullet hit a rib going in, missed the off-side ribs and came to rest under the hide on the off side. Retained bullet weight was 47% and change. Impact velocity was well inside its velocity rating.

As far as I was concerned, the challenge to the bullet�s integrity was pretty minimal and I was less than impressed with its penetration performance. The following year I switched to 160g Grand Slams and it took me 20 years to recover one. When I did, also from about 110 yards, it had destroyed both shoulder joints of a 6x6 bull elk before coming to rest under the hide on the off side. Retained weight was over 70%. Much better in my book.

These days I tend to run TTSX, MRX, and North Fork and haven�t made up my mind on Scirocco II and AccuBond bullets, both of which I used last year for antelope along with another 150g AB for elk. With the former three I don�t worry about the bullet holding together or getting good penetration, with actual shots ranging from 10 feet to over 300 yards. I have yet to stop a TTSX or MRX so I can�t tell you what their weight retention is, only that a lengthwise stem to stern shot on a mulie hasn�t been enough.


By the way, I don�t worry about bone and I�ve seen neck shot elk go a long ways and take several people a day to locate. No thanks on that, either.

Close or far that bullet (@3225 FPS in the 264 Win Mag ) has been flawless for me.

Closest was 35yds and furthest was 1102yds.

Disclaimer.

I only expect the bullet to kill the elk, not to produce a perfect mushroom, retain 90% of its weight or penetrate through 3 elk lengthwise.

Theres some experience for the thread-Thanks John.

I'm in the "Hold together for penetration" Club. I think the margin of error is too high with the Bergers, based on Berger's description of what they are designed to do. I know-you have to hit them in the vitals with any bullet to kill them.

I just belive that penetration cant be a bad thing. Having a bullet that penetrates well will give you more opportunity to kill elk-not having to have the perfect, standing, braodside shot that is seldom given. Give me a Hornady SP, Barnes, Speer, Nosler, you get it. I've used Hornady, Barnes, and Noslers to date. The next one will more than likely fall to a Nosler AB or TSX-again.

Disclaimer: I have never hunted, shot, attempted to hunt or shoot a Berger bullet.

Oh, I guess I could add that my 6.5-284 elk load consists of the 130 Nosler AB.

Joseph

Why bother John? Its way easier for some to flap yaps without actually ever using a Berger. But they know how it operates, correct?

From 30 to 300, all elk that I have put Bergers into became freezer meat without any tracking.

A perfect scenario for a VX-3 3.5-10x40 CDS Leupold with the ballistic turret calibrated for that load. I did my primitive weapons 45-70 that way and with a turn of the turret, it's a 325 yd rifle. That rig should go 250-275 yds, maybe more, I would think.

I have a Savage Muzzle loader, SS with laminated stock, that I haven't used since the new primitive weapon regs were issued in LA. If I was still shooting it, I would use a CDS set up.

DF

'farmer,
I have the same gun. SS action with the brown laminated stock. Heavy as hell, but just as accurate and reliable as my centerfire rifles. I've only shot smokeless powder out of it, and it has never failed to kill anything it's pointed at.

Thousands of deer and elk killed by archers every year are not recovered. Most game management agencies use a recovery loss rate for archery hunters of 25-30% in other words that many run off wounded and die without recovery. I have killed 6 deer with a bow and lost one that was hit hard due to dry conditions and oak leaves for tracking. Never did find her, she was hit at close range just a little far back.
The purpose of sport hunting is to kill the animal cleanly and ethecially, and to recover and utilize the meat. Not just kill it, many calibers suitable for killing may not kill immediately or create a blood trail. Most hunters lack the skill sets to kill animals cleanly at longer ranges with any weapon. Even more so with samll caliber rifles at long range. They also lack the patience to wait until the perfect shot at long range, (as well as short range) how many of us have heard the 600 yard, offhand one shot in the neck stories. I have as well as many of you. I had a hunter tell me last year that he only took neck shots. I polietely tried to tell him that he was follish and that other shot opportunities are much better. For those highly skilled that can and will take "only" the standing boadside shot then almost any legal caliber will meet the clean and ethecial test. For those (the vast majority) that will take the shot presented no matter how presented or at whatever range a larger more powerfull caliber is a requirement. Someone once said regarding elk, use as much gun as you can shoot accurately, I believe that is true to this day.

Elkmen,
First welcome to "the Fire". Always nice to hear new opinions.

That 25-30% figure seems very high to me. I hunted in an archery only club on 6800 acres in the low country of South Carolina. We had 38 bowhunters of all levels that took between 125 to 200 deer a year in the swamps. In my five years at that club we lost a total of 18 deer. If you have not hunted down there it is thick and about 60% water with small islands and ridges to hunt from. A more difficult place to trail a bow shot deer is hard to imagine. Yet our recovery rate was somewhere around 98%. We got pretty good at tracking but we were just regular bowhunters, nothing special. Just saying that number seems very high. There can't be that much difference from western bowhunters to eastern bowhunters.

fyshbum,

I have only killed one bull elk with a bow and he traveled about 50 yards after the shot and fell over dead, so I don't have a lot of personnel history on recovery rates for elk with archery equipment, but it wouldn't surprise me if the recovery loss rate that Elkmen speaks of is true. One of my hunting partners bowhunted north of Kemmerer, WY last September with a group of three guys and they found three dead bulls during their week long bowhunt, all having appeared to have been lost archery kills. My buddy, who has probably killed 75 whitetails (we do a lot of doe culling) even missed a bull at 30 yards. I don't think elk and whitetail recovery/success rates can be compared, apples to oranges.

Tally Ho

Wyoelk,


I was unaware that a compete resume was required before replying to a question on the campfire.

just a little yap flapping
8mmwapiti

Dmsbandit...just curious how many elk you have killed? White tail dear are fragile compared to elk. Sectional density has NOTHING to do with the killing power of a bullet. If your theory was correct, a muzzle loader bullet, nor a pistol bullet would ever kill an elk. Neither would ballistic tips, which I have killed several truck loads with. Flinch