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#5306921 - 06/06/11 Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die
milespatton Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 12528
Loc: Arkansas
What is the difference and which should I use to reload .38 special for my S&W revolver? I have never reloaded pistol bullets before, just rifle, so any tips would be appreciated. miles
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#5306955 - 06/06/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: milespatton]
TomC321 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 422
Loc: Maryland
I believe the difference is that the “factory crimp die” is a roll crimp, suitable for revolver cartridges like the .38 Special and the “taper crimp die” is a taper crimp suitable for cartridges used in auto pistols like the .45 ACP that headspace on the mouth of the case.

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#5306974 - 06/06/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: milespatton]
Bricktop Offline
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Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 7422
Loc: With your mother.....
Originally Posted By: milespatton
What is the difference and which should I use to reload .38 special for my S&W revolver? I have never reloaded pistol bullets before, just rifle, so any tips would be appreciated. miles
You're quite the salty dog for someone who talks a lot of trash in your posts, aren't you? smirk

Taper crimp dies are for autoloaders, roll crimp dies are for revolvers (and other guns where bullets jumping forward or being pushed backwards is inadvisable).

The Lee handgun factory crimp die offers either a taper crimp for autoloaders or a roll crimp for revolvers. The item that particularly sets them apart from other crimp dies is the addition of a carbide sizing ring.

http://leeprecision.com/xcart/Lee-Carbide-Factory-Crimp-Die/
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The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.

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#5307003 - 06/06/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: Bricktop]
milespatton Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 12528
Loc: Arkansas
Quote:
You're quite the salty dog for someone who talks a lot of trash in your posts, aren't you? smirk


Piss off. miles
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#5307247 - 06/06/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: milespatton]
dla Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 842

The Lee FCD is easier to use as it isn't sensitive to the length of the brass. I wouldn't call it a "roll crimp", rather it is more of a collet crimp.

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#5307271 - 06/06/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: dla]
Bricktop Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 7422
Loc: With your mother.....
Originally Posted By: dla
The Lee FCD is easier to use as it isn't sensitive to the length of the brass. I wouldn't call it a "roll crimp", rather it is more of a collet crimp.
Uh, no. The factory crimp dies for rifle cartridges is a collet style crimp, whereas the ones for handgun calibers are either roll or taper crimp, depending on the calibers. They're two different animals.
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I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum.

Originally Posted By safariman
I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person.

Originally Posted By Fireball2
The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.

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#5307362 - 06/06/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: Bricktop]
Bricktopisgay Offline
New Member

Registered: 06/06/11
Posts: 9
Dicktop are you on here being sassy again? You silly boy

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#5307386 - 06/06/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: Bricktop]
dla Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 842
Originally Posted By: Bricktop
Originally Posted By: dla
The Lee FCD is easier to use as it isn't sensitive to the length of the brass. I wouldn't call it a "roll crimp", rather it is more of a collet crimp.
Uh, no. The factory crimp dies for rifle cartridges is a collet style crimp, whereas the ones for handgun calibers are either roll or taper crimp, depending on the calibers. They're two different animals.


Hmmm, I use the FCD on my 44mag fodder. It certainly looks to operate exactly the same as my FCD for my 45-70 fodder - and it is not a roll crimp. Perhaps the FCD is different for cartridges that headspace on the casemouth, such as 45acp.

The beauty of the FCD over roll crimping is that you can get away without performing an initial trim of the cartridge brass. If you try to use a generic roll crimp with unequal length brass, you will get some over crimped and some under crimped.

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#5307404 - 06/06/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: dla]
gunner500 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 23351
Loc: Oklahoma
My Lee FCD's are more like a stab crimp, kinda similar to the old Kynoch nitro rounds.
I like the Lee FCD.

Gunner
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#5307430 - 06/06/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: dla]
Bricktop Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 7422
Loc: With your mother.....
Originally Posted By: dla
Originally Posted By: Bricktop
Originally Posted By: dla
The Lee FCD is easier to use as it isn't sensitive to the length of the brass. I wouldn't call it a "roll crimp", rather it is more of a collet crimp.
Uh, no. The factory crimp dies for rifle cartridges is a collet style crimp, whereas the ones for handgun calibers are either roll or taper crimp, depending on the calibers. They're two different animals.
Hmmm, I use the FCD on my 44mag fodder. It certainly looks to operate exactly the same as my FCD for my 45-70 fodder - and it is not a roll crimp. Perhaps the FCD is different for cartridges that headspace on the casemouth, such as 45acp.

The beauty of the FCD over roll crimping is that you can get away without performing an initial trim of the cartridge brass. If you try to use a generic roll crimp with unequal length brass, you will get some over crimped and some under crimped.
These don't look the same to me:





The definitions don't sound the same either:

"A carbide sizer sizes the cartridge while it is being crimped so every round will positvely chamber freely with factory like dependability. The adjusting screw quickly and easily sets the desired amount of crimp. It is impossible to buckle the case as with a conventional bullet seating die. Trim length is not critical so this extra operation takes less time than it would if cases were trimmed and chamfered.

Revolver dies roll crimp with no limit as to the amount. A perfect taper crimp is applied to auto-loader rounds. The crimper cannot be misadjusted to make a case mouth too small to properly head-space."
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I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum.

Originally Posted By safariman
I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person.

Originally Posted By Fireball2
The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.

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#5307480 - 06/06/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: milespatton]
Jim in Idaho Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/29/01
Posts: 16862
Loc: Idaho, USA
As much as I like some Lee products, I would not recommend their factory crimp die on the .38 Special. That carbide sizing ring squeezes the outside diameter of the entire loaded round down to some minimum dimension. For jacketed bullets this is okay as they can probably withstand the sizing but with cast bullets it runs a very real possibility of sizing the bullet in the case down smaller than you want.

With cast bullets (and also with jacketed) the proper relationship of bullet diameter to chamber throat and barrel diameter is essential for best accuracy and to avoid leading. The leading isn’t such a problem at normal .38 velocities but a too-small bullet fired through a normal sized throat will screw up your accuracy.

I’ve played with the Redding profile crimp die in three different handgun calibers. This applies a slight taper crimp as well as a roll crimp, the idea being to increase bullet pull. Good theory but I never saw any real accuracy advantage, and believe me I sent a lot of rounds downrange looking for one. A proper sized expander coupled with a regular roll crimp die works as good as if not better than anything else for revolver rounds.

For the .38 if you already have the Lee 3 die set just use the regular roll crimp die that comes with it.
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#5307488 - 06/06/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: Bricktop]
dla Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 842
I see your point. I wouldn't have called the crimp on my 44mag a "roll" crimp because it isn't "rolling" the case lip inward. But I see that my definition of "roll" differs from Lee's. Thanks for the pictures!

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#5307535 - 06/06/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: Jim in Idaho]
Bricktop Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 7422
Loc: With your mother.....
Originally Posted By: Jim in Idaho
As much as I like some Lee products, I would not recommend their factory crimp die on the .38 Special. That carbide sizing ring squeezes the outside diameter of the entire loaded round down to some minimum dimension.
That hasn't always been the case in my experience. If your round is at the point that the die is actually sizing it down, it likely wouldn't chamber in your gun either. Most of the time -- nearly all of the time -- if your ammunition is already within dimensional tolerances, the carbide sizer won't touch or alter your rounds at all. The die will simply act as a conventional crimper.
_________________________
I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum.

Originally Posted By safariman
I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person.

Originally Posted By Fireball2
The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.

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#5308112 - 06/06/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: Bricktop]
dla Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 842
Here is an example of the difference between a standard roll crimp and the Lee FCD. This is 44mag.

The left is the roll crimp produced by a dillion SDB. The middle is the SDB roll crimp slightly pulled from revolver recoil. The right is the crimp produced by the Lee FCD.

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#5308736 - 06/06/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: Bricktop]
Bricktopisgay Offline
New Member

Registered: 06/06/11
Posts: 9
Originally Posted By: Bricktop
Originally Posted By: Jim in Idaho
As much as I like some Lee products, I would not recommend their factory crimp die on the .38 Special. That carbide sizing ring squeezes the outside diameter of the entire loaded round down to some minimum dimension.
That hasn't always been the case in my experience. If your round is at the point that the die is actually sizing it down, it likely wouldn't chamber in your gun either. Most of the time -- nearly all of the time -- if your ammunition is already within dimensional tolerances, the carbide sizer won't touch or alter your rounds at all. The die will simply act as a conventional crimper.


Oh Dicktop you silly bitch. You just need a good dick slap to the face don't cha?

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#5308878 - 06/06/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: Bricktopisgay]
McInnis Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 11/20/04
Posts: 1699
Loc: Cheyenne, WY
Come on, let's not get this stuff started here.

Please.

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#5309211 - 06/07/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: Jim in Idaho]
Dirtfarmer Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 13841
Loc: Central Louisiana
In cowboy action shooting, we love the Lee Factory Crimp die for .38 Spec. (.45 Colt, too). Any finished ctg that passes thru that die will easily chamber and function is a '73 clone. Granted, we're not precision shooting in CAS, but that die in the 4th station of a Dillon 550B is pretty standard fare.

I don't know how much sizing down it would do on an already seated lead bullet, but I guess it could, depending on how oversized the bullet was. That could possibly be an issue in the older Colt SAA's with their .454" bullets and the die set up for .452".

I've never heard that complaint.

DF

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#5309337 - 06/07/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: McInnis]
Waders Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 10/25/00
Posts: 7480
Originally Posted By: McInnis
Come on, let's not get this stuff started here.

Please.


My thoughts exactly.
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"Let's Roll!" - Todd Beamer 9/11/01.

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#5309886 - 06/07/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: Waders]
Scott F Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 12/28/00
Posts: 34173
Loc: Missing In Action
I too would ask the trash talk would go away. Someone asks a question, Bricktop answers with good information and in detail and does not deserve this kind of garbage. Take it elsewhere.
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#5310595 - 06/07/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: Scott F]
derby_dude Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 34261
Loc: Montana, Lewis and Clark Count...
Originally Posted By: Scott F
I too would ask the trash talk would go away. Someone asks a question, Bricktop answers with good information and in detail and does not deserve this kind of garbage. Take it elsewhere.


I agree with you Scott. Would any of us tolerate trash talk from our teenagers? I sure wouldn't.
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#5310639 - 06/07/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: derby_dude]
gmoats Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 1167
Loc: Wyoming
Well this thread just cost me $50--two sets delivered--I'm gonna have to stop looking at this web site until the day after pay day!!

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#5310698 - 06/07/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: Scott F]
milespatton Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 12528
Loc: Arkansas
Quote:
I too would ask the trash talk would go away. Someone asks a question, Bricktop answers with good information and in detail and does not deserve this kind of garbage. Take it elsewhere.


You might want to look at Bricktops first answer to me on this very thread. miles
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Look out for number 1, don't step in number 2.

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#5311178 - 06/07/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: milespatton]
Bricktop Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 7422
Loc: With your mother.....
Originally Posted By: milespatton
Quote:
I too would ask the trash talk would go away. Someone asks a question, Bricktop answers with good information and in detail and does not deserve this kind of garbage. Take it elsewhere.
You might want to look at Bricktops first answer to me on this very thread. miles
What about it?

Originally Posted By: Bricktop
Originally Posted By: milespatton
What is the difference and which should I use to reload .38 special for my S&W revolver? I have never reloaded pistol bullets before, just rifle, so any tips would be appreciated. miles
You're quite the salty dog for someone who talks a lot of trash in your posts, aren't you? smirk

Taper crimp dies are for autoloaders, roll crimp dies are for revolvers (and other guns where bullets jumping forward or being pushed backwards is inadvisable).

The Lee handgun factory crimp die offers either a taper crimp for autoloaders or a roll crimp for revolvers. The item that particularly sets them apart from other crimp dies is the addition of a carbide sizing ring.

http://leeprecision.com/xcart/Lee-Carbide-Factory-Crimp-Die/
I stand by my comment as well as my information provided. If you'd rather get into a whole rock-throwing debate, we can do that, too.
_________________________
I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum.

Originally Posted By safariman
I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person.

Originally Posted By Fireball2
The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.

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#5311867 - 06/07/11 Re: Lee factory crimp die vs Lee taper crimp die [Re: Bricktop]
T LEE Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 02/20/01
Posts: 69411
Loc: Punta Gorda, FL
The factory crimp die is, a, BT said, a step up from the seating/crimp standard die as it produces more consistent ammo. And yes, it comes as a taper or roll crimp depending on the application.

Reading comprehension is becoming a lost art, sheesh.
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