Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting LONG RANGE???

Posted by 7mmbuster,
<br>"I myself do mostly still hunting, or by setting in ambush at a spot I know to be frequently used". What kind of sportsmanship is that if you are going to sit at a frequented spot, and ambush them..Jeez it almost sounds unethical:)Sounds like you are going into their living room. Does not sound like you are giving the deer a chance.
<br>Joking aside, I know quite a few marksman, and have no problem with them shooting longrange. It is all in the skill of the shooter to make that judgement, not you or I..There are a bunch iof things hunters do that could be considered unethical.Shooting past 35yds with a bow..Just shotting a compound is grounds for being unethical.Front stuffers using the in-line setup.I will guarantee you there are far fewer deer wounded by longrange shooters that know what they are doing, than some dumbass that shoot a box of shells, and says lets go hunting, shoots the deer in the gut,at 100yds and then blames the rifl. All this talk just ends up pissing me off, because you have no freaking idea how I shoot, how much I shoot, and how well I shoot it. Nor do I have the same info about you..Until someone tells me to quit making these long range killing shots, I think I will continue....I really do not know why you are grunting about longrange shooters, when you could have a lot more fun with the longrange bowhunters, and muzzleloaders. We could just bitch about them for hours...
<br>In closing I do not care if you hunt with a knife, bow, gun.I do not care if you shoot from 1"-1000yds, as long as you have practiced,and have the right equipment...DO IT!

Welcome aboard guys!
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<br>You will see a wider range of folks here than on the longrangehunting site, but most all of us get along real well.
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<br>No Bill T's but some strong opinions, you won't see the name calling or cussing from our regulars.
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<br>It all boils down to the individual shooters skill level, equipment, and willingness to pay the dues required of learning a new skill!
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<br>I consider hunting the act of pursuing wild game. Beyond that it doesn't matter to me if it is while holding a camera, paintball gun, dartgun, bow, muzzleloader, pistol, or rifle.
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<br>Hang around and pull a log up to the fire, I think you'll find the best group of guys on the web!
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<br>mike

Well maybe I spoke/typed too soon!!
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<br>Do y'all remember the John Wayne movie were the kid comes out with a 1911 instead of a SA Colt, he also pulls out a crudely scoped bolt action instead of a model 94....same thing here technology is advancing our sport whether we like it or not, the human factor is still the weak link....
<br>mike

Lee
<br>Good to see that you have sense enough not to mention what you guys do with your sporter weight rifles. They would call you every kind of illegitamate bambino imaginable!
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<br>Here in Alaska we have all kinds of folks wrought up in calling different gear groups names. Several here have touched on the ridiculous nature of shooting themselves in the foot in such fashion... they clearly have never been exposed to the righteous indignation of a PETAphile going off over any form of killing. Get over it folks, even if you don't agree, they have every bit as much right to enjoy them selves at whatever range they care to, as you do.
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<br>If you have a problem with lousy hunters doing terrible things to game animals, do something about it. But go somewhere where you can do some good, say a sight-in day at the range. Don't feel right just walking up to someone and offering help? What the Hell have you been doing here? There are lots of folks out there in need of your help, they simply won't be found around a serious LR shooter's bench.
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<br>Blaine
<br>Are you getting old? You have made sense on every one of your posts that I have read recently;-)
<br>art

Interesting thread. For me personally even more so since I try and vist Mr. Hart at his shop at least twice a year. I think people would be surprised to learn how much the military and others have learned from the boys up Willamsport way. They have pioneered much of the long range shooting. This covers not just the techonogly but everything from ranging, wind reading and tactics.
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<br>I personally have never even attempted to shoot a game animal at 200yrds. My longest shot in over 30 years is apx 180 yrds and is one of only two beyond 100 yrds. This has to do with the way I hunt. Even when I lived in Montana I never shot anything beyond 60yrds and this included the prarie goats. I do not find long range hunting inherently wrong. What I do find wrong is when the game is not treated in an ethical and humane manner, be it 10 feet or 1000 meters. If you can hunt them with respect and humanely and do not violate any laws, there should be room for you in the hunting fields.
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<br>I am a realist when it comes to people, and realize that someone will complain no matter what it is you do. Life is to short to worry about those people. In the end the only person you really have to live with is yourself. At my age I doubt that I will take up any long range stuff, even paper. As I get older I am finding a foundness for the levers and straight walled cases. I am seriously thinking of starting to cast my own and shooting them. The reason is I seem to find joy using the older rounds and rifles from ganddads days. Does this make my way better or worse then another. NO. But for me it brings joy and fun and I like the venision also, and in my mind only it seems to taste better somehome.

Well, I thought this was a HUNTERS campfire not a shooters campfire. Seems as though we are being invaded by long range shooters that couldn't carry their equipment 100 yards without taking a break. A hunting rifle doesn't weigh 15 to 30 pounds and binos don't take a strong tripod to hold them steady. JMHO if you are a responsible hunter you don't need a range finder to shoot game, if you do it is too far to be responsible and people that play with a life for their enjoyment have MY contempt. Long range shooting and equipment is enjoyable when it is accomplished in the correct mannor. How many people, do you think, that buy a license to hunt can afford equipment like you describe and when you talk it how many do you think will try and stretch their hunting rifle range to any animal they see, especially the young new guys. Personally if I were interested in long range shooting at animals I would go over to that board for the information.

Did I miss a post here? Are the Long Range guys proposing that every hunter has to spend a compact car for equipment to go hunting? What does the fact that every hunter can't afford the equipment have to do with anything? Every hunter can't afford a lot of the trips or gear that is mentioned on these boards and that does not make it any less interesting or, the activities of those who can any less valid IMO. And, if you find that you can HUNT with a rifle without SHOOTING, then that really will be interesting news. In short, I believe the Long Range guys are dedicated hunters who approach it from a different viewpoint, but one that is just as valid as most others. Welcome aboard and tell us more. Wish I lived closer to your ranges.

need one.If you have no interest in long range hunting.Why do you keep posting on this thread?????????

Man alive you boys are sure putting ideas in my old head. Things I never considered before. Ten to 12 K for a gun, yard long barrels! Cartridges that burn powder by the peck. Optics you can look over the horizon with! And cost the down payment on a Chevy.
<br>Whole shooting match is so heavy it takes a man and
<br>a boy and a pack mule to tote.
<br>I got me an idea! I am going to write over to Russia or Overyonderstan or some other Stan and see if I can't get me a surplus ICBM. I hear tell those folks are hard up for cash and selling cheap. Probably get a good one that belonged to a little old commisar who only used it on Linen's birthday and kept it in the garage all the time.
<br>Now, Sirs, I could just set up in the back yard and find out how to get on the net for some of those space pictures that will show up a match box from space! Maybe even come up with one of those unmanned spy airplanes that send back television pictures. Slightly used and all AAA holes bondoed but not painted. Sort of a rough and ready cammo scheme. Old deer never see what was circling around him like a chicken hawk! Now any deer inside a couple of thousand miles ain't safe from me! No Sir. Just see one I like on my cold war surplus East German monitor ( German's make the best optics don't they?) and light off my ICBM. Well, I can see it now! In just a couple of minutes there goes a mushroom cloud and that old deer will be microwaved and even glow in the dark for the week or so it will take me to walk over there and collect his carcass. Mount him on the wall and have a combination trophy and night light.
<br>One thing I haven't researched, will I need to purchase an out of state license for each state that my ICBM transits or just one for the impact area?
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<br>BCR

Hmmm, a 338-416 is basically a 338 Laupua, Right? Although a 37" bbl isnt my cup of tea. With the kind of money you guys spend, you might as well go with a 5" gun off of a Amphibious Landing Vehicle or something like that. Something like a 15 Mile range with a 20m diameter circle accuracy. I think it is more like a garbage can at half that. Sounds good enough for a deer to me, and that 70lb projectile will do wonders! Also, you wouldnt have to spend all that money on glass beacuse you would know if tou hit them or not!

Boyd, You ask for my answers to your questions. I don't use a tree stand, I don't sit and wait for game, I don't use elk bugles, mechanical or electrical calls. In my estimation , hunting is having the skill to close in on wanted game as close as possible. All my hunting is stalking. I don't sit in meadows or on ridges. First light, I hit the heavy timber and slowly and quietly approach. elk. Now you can rationalize all you want, but the only skill it takes is the skill of shooting and spending money. Which I will give you is not easily. I have shot many 600 yd matches myself with service rifles. Your kind of so called hunting is no better than the people who run all over the hills on ATVs with no regard to other people in the field and are too lazy to get off thier butts and work for the game they take. AT 1000 yds , how can you tell if there is another hunter in the timber behind the game, already stalking it, or wouldn't you care? As I said in my previous post, I don't care if you do it or not, it's legal. But if it was right, you wouldn't get so much flack on it here, nor would you defend it so much. I welcome all the newbies that came over here to post on this subject. Just seems that you had to go off and find someone who would support you and asked them to lend a hand.

Need one
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<br>Nobody ever said you or anyone else should buy this equipment. I mentioned it as to let you or anyone else know we are VERY prepared for the long shot when needed and have all the neccessary equipment. We practice all year to be able to use this equipoment correctly. You know the old saying, practice makes perfect.
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<br>Lets compare our equipment to the Doctor who wants a fine rifle and pays $5000.00 or more to have his Sauer highly engraved because he likes fine looking rifles to carry in the woods and shoot it 50 or 100 yards.
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<br>Hunting styles is a personal decision to make by anyone. The amount he spends on the style he chooses and equipment he buys is nobodys business as long as the equipmnt meets all State laws pertaining to hunting game.
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<br>We also have long barreled rifles with bi-pods that are light weight (10# and good to 1250 Yards) in which we pack our Freighter Back-packs with light "bigeyes", a small tripod, thermos, food and carry our equipment out to far ridges (that we have previously pre-ranged the yardages on a picture) to survey the far mountains all day. This is not unlike the the hunter that sits or stands on his favorite deer spot in Pennsylvania or any State. We just do it at greater distance.
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<br>You don't have to walk or ride a horse all day to call it the "ONLY way" EVERYONE should hunt.
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<br>If your preferance is to do that, fine. Ours is to kill the game clean and at ranges you can't believe mainly because you may not have been around the longrange groups or have no desire to try it. That's fine too.
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<br>You hunt your way and we will hunt ours because we enjoy it and know what our rifles are capable of doing way out there. Most short range shooters have NO idea what their rifle's are capable of. We have a 11 Lb rifle class at Williamsport where those with factory rifles shoot at 1000 yards. You would be surprised at the groups and the bullet energy that is maintained at 1000 yards from these factory rifles.
<br>Remember, most of us started hunting the way you do until we learned there are other ways.
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<br>Hunting game is a personal preferance and that's why the game comminsions offer so many different seasons and game animals to eleminate. The way you choose to do it (within the laws and rules) is your decision to make. Sort of like, you hunt your way and we will hunt ours.
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<br>We are certainly not trying to convert you to our ways. We just want you and everyone else to know that, Longrange hunting is becoming VERY popular and we will gladly try and help anyone who wants to know how we do it.
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<br>As a last point of interest.
<br>Longrange hunters have NEVER had a hunting accident or caused the wounding or death of another hunter. The short range hunters can't say that at all, especially with their snap shots at game running in the woods.
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<br>Through our "Bigeyes" we know where EVERY piece of Orange is on the far mountain/s and will NEVER shoot if another hunter is within 1000 yards of that animal. No game animal is worth hurting another hunter over and I mean NO animal.
<br>I personally have waited all day till a hunter left the mountain so I could kill a bedded elk we picked up at first light.
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<br>There are no "kill yardage limits" in the game law book in any State I'm aware of.
<br>There are NO moral yardage limits as to how far or how close one wishes to hunt and kill game.
<br>Kill is kill and dead is dead.
<br>Your way is fine for you and our way is fine with us. We are all after the same final result, That is to find and kill the animal we are after.
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<br>We have never lost one yet and that's considering a "bunch" of elk and deer that we have killed over the years.
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<br>Darryl Cassel
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DC, -- you are not trying to promote long range hunting over here instead of on your own board? Congratulations. You will find most of the hunters over here are just plain old hunters, trying to make ends meet and save enough for the next hunting trip. Most can't afford a guided trip much less even a $2000 rifle. Don't think a new hunter can afford what you are selling but will try his new Savage 308 out at a mere close 500 yards.You are doing a great job of undermining what we are trying to teach the younguns, ethics, responsibility, morality. To shoot at targets at any range is interesting, fascinating, sport, and condoned by all, to shoot at a living thing at your ranges, irresponsible and immoral in MY opinion. A wounded deer can start running, are you telling me you can shoot running game at a 1000 yards. You are selling BS!!
<br>I respect the equipment, the range, the time and money involved to get to your point, BUT not at a live target, only contempt. NO flame, just honest opinion from a hunter that cares about our game. Have you ever seen an elk hobbling through the timber with one leg dangling from a bad shot? It doesn't stop there, the pain and suffering from the magots and infection bring it down where it starves to death or eaten alive by ants and predators. I don't want that on my conscience, I do care about our game, they are not just a toy for the wealthy,(or anyone), to play games with. JMHO and does not reflect how any of the others around this campfire feel, just ME, I speak for no one. Just because it's legal at this point, doesn't make it right. They outlawed live pigeon shoots a long time ago. -- no

Darryl, have you guys ever missed one?
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<br>The reason I ask, is that I assume (knowing that sets me up) that if you aren't willing to go after a deer or elk that you wouldn't be willing to hike the 1000+ yards to check for signs of a hit on a missed animal. If you never miss (hard to believe -- but I'll take your word for it) OR you follow up on your shots to be certain of a clean miss, then I guess I don't have a problem with what you are doing.
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<br>I can't imagine getting enjoyment out of hunting this way, but that doesn't make it wrong for you to do. I'd love to try it on a paper target. I'd rather see your "type" of hunter than the dude who uses the same box of shells for 10 seasons. As someone else mentioned, I hope you aren't poking game out from under folks on their stalks. Not a cool thing to do, regardless of what range you are shooting. I hope you aren't taking this as a flame, it is not intended that way -- unless, of course, you aren't following up on your shots!!!

Stick, -- from your post, why don't you hunt with a cyanide gun, save you much time and effort. Like you said dead is dead. ------- Bet it does matter to you, just hasn't registered yet, the ramifications are great for all of us. -- no

Here's an article by Dan Lilja on Long-range shooting.
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<br>http://www.riflebarrels.com/longrange.htm
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<br>Rick

NO
<br>Not to rile you up any further than you already are... but if you look at this thread's inception you will notice that it was someone from this board calling the LR hunters names. They simply were nice enough to come over here and tell their side.
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<br>Somehow, telling me they need to spend 20G just to start in their style is not a way to recruit new comers to their way of doing things.
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<br>As an aside, I bet the dangle-leg elk you describe was shot at far less than 1000 yds.
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<br>Boggy
<br>You are just too funny!
<br>art

Need One
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<br>Lets you and I understand something here, I don't sell BS to anyone, only the truth as to what we do and have done. We as LR hunters are only trying to share our experiances so the newbies coming into LR hunting will understand and do it correctly.
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<br>I also mentioned our way is not for everyone because most hunters as, you mentioned, are only trying to make ends meet and save for the next hunting season and don't have the kind of funding to have the equipment most of us "dedicated" LR hunters have. We didn't buy all of it over night.
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<br>As far as a three legged elk is concerned, it probably got that way from a short range shooter who did not place his shot well and maybe while that elk was running away?
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<br>We don't shoot at running animals EVER. Even if we miss that first shot, the animal does not relate fear to it as he only heard a little noise from the bullet impacting on the ground. They never heard the noise from the muzzle blast at the distance we are set up and don't relate danger to the slight impact noise from the bullet. We have actualy watched deer and elk walk over and stick their nose in the impact hole because there was dust still coming out of the ground. Maybe the bullet just went over his back. We Take off a couple clicks of elevation maybe make a windage adjustment and the next shot he is DEAD.
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<br>As far as teaching youngsters to hunt and shoot, you would be surprised as to how many Juniors we have competing at Williamsport that also LR hunt with their Fathers and Grandfathers so they can learn the correct way to do it. We have 227 Average shooters at every 1000 yard match. Lots of Junior shooters.
<br>As far as bullet energy at 1000 yards and beyond, I explained that in an earlier post.
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<br>People such as yourself may never accept LR hunting but, you should get use to it as the popularity is gaining rapidly even in the young hunters.
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<br>I think the miss shot explanation also answered Muley Stalkers question.
<br>MS--With our Bigeyes, we can see the bullet impact right into the animal and that's a fact. If there is ever a doubt, we go the extra mile and go over to see. We normally DON"T take a shot we are not sure of though.
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<br>If you guys are still in doubt, please buy the Video I mentioned in the long post. It will answer any question or doubt you may have. Butch captured the vapor trail of the bullet going right into the animals.
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<br>Longrange is here to stay.
<br>To each his own way of hunting---Live and let live.
<br>Later
<br>DC

Here is the problem I have with advocating long range hunting. Many people see what the few can do well and decide "if they can do it, I can do it too". I have seen several hunters who tried shots well beyond their range because of what they read or heard or saw someone else do. Watching a deer running with its jaw blown off at 900 yards is not fun. It's almost impossible to shoot a running deer at that distance. Most hunters who try these shots(when they are not capable of making them) will spend little time tracking that wounded deer. It could easily be a mile away by the time they get to where it was shot. The responsable hunters who follow up their game know their limits(whatever they may be) and don't push them.
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<br>Now, is this the fault of those who can shoot long range? Usually no. But there are those who don't get satisfaction of their long range hunting unless they tell hundreds of people what they can do(like they are special). These are the ones I have a problem with. I can hit a deer at longe range as well as most. I choose not to. If you choose to, fine. But don't act like your special because you do. Be responsible about telling of these great feats. Warn those newcomers of the many pitfalls. Tell them strait out how much time it takes to learn and stay competent in long range shooting. Advise them to not even try it if they are not deadly serious about doing it. Its much like the saying in College. Those who can, do; those who can't, teach. In my experiences, those who have tried to convince me of their abilities(in anything) the most, usually had the least. If they were really that good, they wouldn't have spent so much time trying to convince me of something they knew to be true.
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<br>Longe range hunting is often compared to military sniping. It couldn't be farther from the truth. In the military, many times wounding is a greater factor than outright killing. This is not the case in hunting. The goal should be the most humane kill no matter what the game no matter what the weapon. It would be nice if everyone knew their limit and stuck to it. The problem is there are too many idiots out there. What can be done about that? That is the real problem.

Art, -- with paper targets or robots fine, I'm for it, but the living thing sticks in my throat. Wonder how they would like to be wounded out in the mountains, no DR or medicene, unable to use their hands to work on the wound. All they could do is watch flies blow the wound and magots start eating. Not a pretty picture. Then they have the audacity to say well so and so is doing it why can't I. Yes, ole no gets hot when this issue comes up. All of us take a long shot occasionally, we hunt, these guys do it all the time for kicks. I don't care if it's the President or Bill Gates, it's wrong and I protest. -- no