Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting LONG RANGE???

7mmbuster
<br>Here is most of your original post, so you needn't go back to find it;
<br>"Heard from a guy on another forum about shooting deer at long range. Now, I'm thinking 400 yards. NO! 500? Hah! He's talking over 750 yards! This is a sport?!
<br>
<br>When did deer become a bullseye on an oversize benchrest range? For crying out loud. If you got these sniper fantasies, then join the freaking military!
<br>
<br>The idea of hunting is to get as close as you can, not shoot from the next county. You try to be a part of the environment, you blend in. YOU BELONG THERE. Deer are a precious natural resource, and deserve to be treated with care and respect."
<br>
<br>To start with the funny part, few who know me would suggest I grow thicker hide... I certainly had no ruffled feathers, simply making comments on someone I felt was making an emotional attack, which I agree with you was based on "ignorance and predjuidice," your words there. But there is a non-sequitur there, and I am not certain whether you are accepting the fact you were arguing solely out of emotion.
<br>
<br>You also started the ball rolling on the "precious natural resource" line of argument, which several, myself included, find a bit stilted and over-emotional. Somehow, I do not see automatic sainthood coming with a heartbeat. Tell it to the families of some of the many people being killed in the mid-west each year in deer-vehicle collisions because the various agencies allowed the "precious natural resource" to over-populate their range.
<br>
<br>I was simply pointing out that your attacks were ad hominem. You called their methods unsporting and suggested repeatedly that they did unsporting things, suggested they had wierd fantasies... you call it.
<br>
<br>No offense intended, nor taken.
<br>art
<br>

No wonder the bunny huggers are winning, bet they laugh like heck when they read this thread. I do not take shots at 300 yds or 1000 yds. the reason being I don't believe I am able to hit my target consistently, but if I had the proper equipment, training and a lot of practice I don't see why it couldn't and shouldn't be done. Yes, there are people that can't hit their intended target at 50yds but there are also people that can't walk and chew gum at the same time and I still walk and chew gum even if it does stick to my dentures.

<br>pumpgun,
<br>
<br>Never had a scope fly off at the range but have seen some "hunters" try to chamber the wrong ammo in their rifles and had one dude who,when his ammo was sticking, shot some WD-40 in the chamber to help with extraction(Yikes)
<br>
<br>Like I said, half the hunters I see,should limit their shots to 50yds or less,with their 300 mags that they never practice with. I don't know why some folks think they were born with a Davy Crockett gene and can automatically shoot without any preparation or skill.
<br>
<br>I take my hat off to those that can and do,shoot at any range they feel comfortable and know when not to shoot.

Art, Yeah, I'll be the first to admit that I acted on emotion. Like I said I was raised on venison through some tuff times, and was taught to value the meat and the animal. Hence I tend to get emotional if I think someone is just blasting away without any thought other than maybe getting the first one to fall down.
<br>
<br>I thought I was dealing with another like those I refered to working with. There are a couple at my workplace who claim to have killed deer at over 800 yrds. One with a .243!!! These jokers do very little walking there, so I seriously doubt that they'll walk 800 yrds to follow up a shot.
<br>
<br>After reading how these guys do it, I'm willing to admit I acted on ignorance and emotion. Now that I know a little more about it, I must admit I'm a little intrigued by it. I'm not ready accept it as hunting, but the shooting part has me curious.
<br>
<br>As for those killed in deer/vehicle collisions, now who is bringing in an emotional arguement? I could be wrong, but I'd wager PA has nearly as many such incedents as any other state. Definately more than most. As for that, I think the driver has alot to do with it. There are plenty of deer hit on my road every year, but I have yet to come close. SLOW THE HELL DOWN if you think there's a possibility of hitting them. Ther are some collisions that are unavoidable, thats true, deer have a habit of coming out of nowhere, but around here, If you slow down to a breakneck speed, you can avoid most of them.
<br>
<br>Now that I admited I acted Rashly, would you mind telling me just what in the world "non-sequitur" and "ad hominem" mean? Them's some big $20 words, and I got a 12th grade education and a back-breaking blue collar job!
<br>7mm

This might help with perspective on the "wounding/losing " objection to long- let's call it ultra long- range hunting:
<br>
<br>My partner just returned Sunday from three weeks of guiding Nilgai hunts in S. Texas. He was bragging on the 270WSM.They had 12 hunters,mostly or maybe all Win. reps, all shooting that cartridge. He said they "only" lost one bull out of the twelve hunters.That's compared to one out of eight on average.
<br>
<br>The hunters they get are not your once a year guy.And they average losing one in eight.That's not counting the ones that aren't lost because the guide nails them.
<br>
<br>Does anyone think the lost ratio is much different on deer? Seems to me the ultra long range guys are entitled to lose as many as the average before they are branded irresponsible.And yet they have lost none.
<br>
<br>I doubt there is a worse deer crippling practice around than buckshot but if I lived in a state that mandated it,that's what I'd use.If hunting is a game- and to me it's not - then losing is not going home hungry,it's crippling an animal.You will lose some and if you can't take your loss like a man then I dont want you whining around the same fire with me.
<br>
<br>And since when did this campfire become solely about "teaching the young 'uns"?

Hi everybody.I'm back.A good freind of mine made a Long Range Hunting video this past year.There are 11 kill shot's from 400 to 1150 yard's.Gun's used are.A Box stock Rem Sendero in 300 Weatherby.A 300 Weatherby with a 28"Hart barrel..A 30 Hart with a 30" barrel.And a 338-378 with a 30"barrel.Like Darryl Cassel said before.You can see the wash off the bullet as it is on it's way to the deer.You can also see the bullet as it strike's the deer.He is also making a HOW-TO video.We spent most of the day today shooting video for it.If any of you have an interest in LRH.The hunting video will show you what happen's when thing's are done right.The how to video will show you how to do thing's the right way.And how to do them safely. If any of you want a hunting video contact keenvisionvideosuscom.net.7mmbuster.I would be glad to show you what a (Real gun) is capable of sometime.How far can we shoot up there?

7mm,
<br>
<br>I have been staying out of this one for a long time, and don't intend to get caught up in the melee. My feeling is that if you can make a killing shot take it. If that means that you can kill deer at 2000 yards with a muzzleloader, more power to you. If you have any doubts, get closer before you shoot. Seems simple enough to me, but I guess it isn't based upon the ruckus that this topic has raised!
<br>
<br>Now, my real point - guys in PA and their long range shots. My dad, as some may know, is a gunsmith in Westmoreland County. We have guys in and out of the shop all of the time with tales of their long shots. Most of them cant tell 150 yards from 1000 yards. We have several landmarks around the shop that we have checked with a laser rangefinder (50 - 1500 yards). We even had them verified by a surveyor that is a customer. With this information in hand, we often ask customers to estimate the ranges to some of the landmarks. You would be amazed the answers that we get from some guys when we ask them to estimate how far away some of these landmarks are. There is one telephone pole that is almost exactly 400 yards. One guys that ALWAYS kills deer at 700 and 800 "yards", estimated that the 400 yard pole was actually at 900 yards. My point being, most guys can't tell 50 yards from 500. These guys shouldn't be hunting AT ALL IMHO. They are dangerous at 10 yards! Could it be that your coworker falls into this category?
<br>
<br>FWIW, the guys that shoot competitively (ie - shoot a lot and know their guns and loads) answer with far greater accuracy than those that have had the same box of ammo for the past ten years. No surprise there I guess.
<br>
<br>Stush

I love this thread. I am learning more stuff than Carter has liver pills. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Now when I want to learn that long range shooting I don't want to just piddle around with them little 7/8ths mile shots. No Sir, I want to go whole hog or none. But there is bad news to report. You can't buy an ICBM for nothing. They is all spoke for and earnest money put up.
<br>However in crusing around the old net I run across the web site of Honest Achmet's used camel emporium and tea room. He has offered to fix me up with a quad mount DShK M38/46 12.7 m/m. How bout them apples. Honest Achmet says it came off a trade in Soviet Tank in Candyjar, Aftergrandstand or somewhere like that and has been sitting in a warehouse since 92. Says it is in 95% condition and has a six months warrantee. He has some tracer and ap rounds and will throw in a spare mount if I will take the whole thing as one lot. Each gun weighs 78.5 pounds with a 42 inch barrel. No Siree bob no piking around with them little fifteen and twenty pound long range rifles for me.
<br>I am going to get the whole thing fob on an Liberian flaged freighter bound for the Gulf Coast.
<br>Boy Hi Dee, I can hardly wait. I am going to put out the word amoungst all the possums, and coons, and foxes and such and let that word filter through all the woods. Now next season I will just mount up my quad DSkH and you know there is just no missing with them things. Especially when you got an in with a Spy in the sky sattelite like I do. I won't have to worry about staying warm when it is cold or dry when it is wet or breaking in new boots or nothing. Not a worry about learning any thing about how deer live or what they eat or what kind of cover they like or the travel routes they prefer. Not for this boy. When the word gets out to all the deer all I will have to do is set on my front porch and sip hot toddys, and wait. Maybe eat a few bon-bons. Pretty soon they will all just come in to surrender. I can see it now. Marching up, little hooves stuck up in the air above their ears. Little white flags fluttering from their antlers. Be like a Wild Kingdon version of the Iraqi army in Desert Storm.
<br>I don't know if this will fully satisfy my thirst for true long range shooting though. I think I might have a line on a 280 m/m cannon. Man we are talking thirty miles here.
<br>BCR

Boggy,I can get you a deal on some hi-capacity mags for that 280 mm cannon.Once you get the range,you're gonna want more firepower.

Hey Boggy, -- I'm gettin real interested in this long range shootin myself, think you might swing me a deal on somthin kinda light, you know, like maybe a 1/2 mile flat shooter. If Willey would let me in the yard maybe we could do a little shootin at some of those flower vans running down the interstate for practice. Got to practice, practice, to where we can hit running targets at a decent range. Think that camel man will take our 270s trade in. -- no

I side with Boggy in this debacle. Took a sip just before I started Boggy's post and laughed so quick I nearly spit up all over my keyboard.

I hunt with some of the most experienced marksman in the world, they are complete professionals. I have never seen a wounded animal, and if there was, there would be no question as to followup. None of them take a step backward to make it further than necesssary..Ethics has NOTHING to do with how far you shoot, but has everything to do with the way you approach a hunt. I do not know ANY longrange hunters that do not fail to have the best equipment, and they practice all year.. The guys you talk about shooting longrange, are not hunters they are hacks that try to shoot at longrange.. They would be no better off at 100yds, than 600yds..They do not practice, and have little respect for their quarry. One thing I have learned that if you are hunting true trophy class animals, you will very rarely get close to them, they have their circle of safety, and they know it very well, if one of these animals bust you, you are very unlikely to see them again...You might only get one shot, and it might be 500-600yds or further, and you had better hit with the first, or you will not see them again. The guys I hunt with know where these animals are, and have scouted all year, and will hump however far they need to to get there, and I can tell you, they are not going to take many chances that leave that animal on the side of the hill. I am a man of modest means, but when I go into the field, I absolutely have the finest eqipment to do the job. I have a 9lb David Miller marksman, and 15X56 swarovski's, and I am ordering the new swarovski spotting scope soon..and I practice year round So as you see, I do not have a 25lb bench rifle to carry anywhere..I simply have no patience for anyone to tell me how far is too far, when they have absolutely no idea what I am capable of, or what my intentions are. I just got off a Oryx hunt with Art, and the day we got there, the warden told us that the day before they had 11 animals lost out of 25 hunters. These were not longrange hunters, they were just everyday guys that keep there shots short, because on this hunt you very rarely shoot over 200yds.Now you tell me who the unethical group is..The guys that shoot outwards of 900yds, and do not lose an animal, or the ones that keep there shots to 200yds, but still can't shoot, and lose 11 freaking Oryx.. Rant Over..
<br>

NO,
<br>
<br>When you say: "Are you with me?" It doesn't look like anybody on this thread is "with" you. It appears you are all alone.
<br>
<br>I realize at your advanced years it may be difficult for you to understand things unless you take the time to re-read several times. I have a suggestion, go back and re-read the posts so you may make an informed decision. Should this pose a problem, for you, I will do what I can to help you more fully understand.
<br>
<br>Don

Don don't know - It really takes a man with a lot of class to sit behind a computer a thousand miles away and bad mouth a person because of age. With a little luck you might get there. You should be as smart as NO.

Don Knows:
<br>
<br>Need One and I may have our personal disagreements, and we may disagree on the topic of this thread, but taking a cheap shot because someone has been lucky enough to make it to the golden years is in very poor taste and speaks volumes about the poster, not the person he is attempting to deride. I think you should delete that post and I will then delete mine.
<br>
<br>Just for the record, Need One is in no way senile and is a good deal sharper than most men of any age.

Sheesh Don,
<br>
<br>Can't you remain civil and engage in debate without resorting to personal attacks? It IS possible to disagree and make your point while keeping the tone of discussion polite and gentlemanly. Its called CLASS. 'nuff said. badger.

What I don't get is why some of you are getting so defensive. If you think what you are doing is OK, why do you care what someone you don't know, have never met, and probably never will meet, thinks about how you hunt. Are you trying to convince them or yourself?

Badger,
<br>
<br>Point out who attacked who, will you?
<br>
<br>NO did the attacking, not me
<br>
<br>I am merely trying to explain the point, which the old guy obviously did not get. He seems to disagree with most everything posted on this thread. Maybe he is lonely and needs some attention.
<br>
<br>Perhaps you need to go back and look what I said in my first post on this thread. I merely agreed with one of the long range hunters about the noise (at close range) scaring the heck out of the deer. Then your old buddy comes on and attacks me,,,,and this is ok with you? I didn't mention NO in my first post on this thread. In fact I didn't mention any name/handle at all with regards to the noise at close range.
<br>
<br>Perhaps you and your buddies are just out to harass people just for fun. That was not my intention, but it seems to be yours.
<br>
<br>Add something usefull to the thread, versus attacking me, if your capable of doing so.
<br>
<br>I read what the long range hunters have posted with interest because what they are saying is of interest, to me. If somebody doesn't agree with what is said, thats fine, but when this old timer attacks for no reason at all, that merely proves his ignorance. If he is going to START dishing it out, he should at the least have thick enough skin to get it back.
<br>
<br>Don

<br>quote- "add something useful to this thread instead of attacking me, if you are capable of doing so"
<br>
<br>When you say: "Are you with me?" It doesn't look like anybody on this thread is "with" you. It appears you are all alone.
<br>
<br>I realize at your advanced years it may be difficult for you to understand things unless you take the time to re-read several times. I have a suggestion, go back and re-read the posts so you may make an informed decision. Should this pose a problem, for you, I will do what I can to help you more fully understand.
<br>
<br>Don (end quotes)
<br>
<br>Don, your hypocritical stance on many issues makes you a poster child for disdain. On this board and any other I've seen you post on, your childish personal attacks always degenerate to this type of nonsense- I wonder why?
<br>
<br>Oh, and by the way, you remember when I said I'd never reply to your posts again? I changed my mind- I just can't resist jumping into the easy openings you leave for criticism. Sometimes you just make it too easy- Hey, but you have a nice day, OK?