Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting LONG RANGE???

Darryl,
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<br>What days do you have shoots in Williamsport?
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<br>I would be interested in driving over one day and shoot, if that is possible.
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<br>Would you or somebody else help me out? Get me on the paper at 1000 yards, that is. I have plenty of elevation adjustment left on my scope. If memory serves me correctly I have around 46" of adjustment at 100 yards.
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<br>I am interested to see what kind of group I can shoot at 1024 yards (did I get the yardage right?).
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<br>Don

Hello
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<br>I'm back at the fire with another pack of hot Dogs this morning and Hello to all.
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<br>I see some of you are still wondering and maybe confused as to what and how we do what we do.
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<br>Let me answer the questions that three of you have asked.
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<br>BIG STICK----The rifle is a 338/416 Rigby IMP with a 37" barrel. The velocity I get from a 300 Gr Sierra MK with a BC of close to (Actual) .800 is 3310 FPS
<br>At 1000 yards I have a remaining velocity of 2188 FPS and a terminal energy of 3190 FP.
<br>At 2000 yards I have a remaining velocity of 1284 FPS (Below1000 to 1100 FPS goes subsonic) and energy of 1099 FP---Plenty to kill an animal at that range.
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<br>NEED ONE---Nobody said we are "HOLDING" the rifle as you would your 8 lb carry gun. Some are shot from bi-pods and some are shot from rests.
<br>Some of the ranges we shoot, we would NEVER try to hold a rifle and to try for a first round hit on the first shot. That would be a mistake and we may possibly hit a doe or cow that is standing close to our intended target. Our Longrange group will not shoot does or cows. We won't kill what produces the Bulls and Bucks for the future. It's not that we haven't in the past, it's just that we don't do it at all, any longer.
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<br>Our procedure is to make sure there are NO hunters anywhere near the animal. We then range the animal with our military laser rangefinders. The MOST powerful and accurate you can get.
<br>For extremely long shots, We set the elevation clicks just HIGH enough so the bullet will go over top of the animal. This is to get our windage adjustment when we see the bullet go in and impact over top and behind the animal. This is where we have seen the animal go over to the impact and stick his nose in the hole wondering what it was that made that little noise. After that shot and the windage adjustment is put in and the excess elevation is taken back off, the next shot drops the animal.
<br> Sometimes we take a spotter shot at a small object such as the base of a dead tree stump or clump of dirt. From that shot we are able to do all our corrections of windage and final elevation. We swing back to the animal and kill it with the next shot.
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<br>As stated earlier, the animals are not alarmed because the noise level is very faint to them from the muzzle blast. Unlike the short range shooter that shoots at 50 or 100 yards. The noise scares the hell out of them and they will take off even mortilly wounded.
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<br>Seal answered somebody's question here when he explained that a wounded animal does not react the same when hit LR as up close. When we hit them, they just lay down, they don't run. They are not alarmed.
<br>When we see an animal that may be alive and has just laid down from being hit, (which they do almost always within 5 yards of being hit) the next shot is into him within about 10 seconds. We don't let an animal suffer and he does NOT get away from us.
<br>This is unlike the short range shooter that has to track a wounded animal all over the place and can't find him till hours have passed and it just may lay there suffering for a long time before it dies.
<br>So a point in our favor, we don't let them suffer when they are hit.
<br>By the way, with our powerful Bigeyes, we can see the bullet hits into the hide and that's a fact.
<br>Again, you must see this done to possibly believe it.
<br>You can buy the tape that Boyd mentioned and see actual LR kills to 1150 yards. It would be the BEST $20.00 or $25.00 you ever spent and answer most all your questions.
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<br>As I also stated, we are here to help the young or old shooter/hunter every way we can to make sure we can suggest the correct equipment he must have and to help him undersatnd the ballistics of bullet flight and to make the scope corrections that are so critical to making a Longrange kill. This is of course, "IF" he is interested in LR hunting.
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<br>DON KNOWS---Here are the Match dates for 2002 at Williamsport.
<br>The light guns, 16 1/2 Lb shoot on Saturday and the Heavy bench guns on Sunday.
<br>Match # 1. May 4th and 5th
<br> 2. May 18th and 19th
<br> 3. June 8th and 9th
<br> 4. June 22 and 23
<br> 5. July 20 and 21
<br> 6. Aug. 3 and 4
<br> 7. Aug. 17 and 18
<br> 8. Sept. 7 and 8
<br> 9. Sept. 21 and 22
<br> 10. Oct. 12 and 13
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<br>World Open two day event with over 300 shooters each day from all over the World, with two classes of rifles each day, will be "JULY 6 and 7"
<br>Most certanly bring a rifle and shoot. in a match. Someone will be happy to get you on target.
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<br>Hope to see you there.
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<br>I just ate more hot dogs "For Breakfast"??? yukkkk
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<br>Hope that answered some of your questions fellows. In reality, you have to see the LR way done but, watch out, it is very addictive. Get ready to open up that wallet
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<br>Darryl Cassel
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Good mourning.
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<br>Big Stick, the 300ultra is mostly stock,except for a Mcmillen stock and a little trueing of the action.My group and I shoot either off bi-pods or sometimes off a bench.
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<br>We hunt with all legal means.
<br>I average 4 to 6 deer a year with a bow,I only got two this year though.I stalked and killed two bucks with my muzzle loader,one at 35 yards the other I snuck to withen 12yds when it got out of its bed and walked to me.I shot him at nine feet.
<br>I love to hunt with every weopon there is and killed a lot of deer but it started to get to easy with a rifle,so I started to hunt LR.Most of us hunt by other means,but when it comes to rifle season were longranging it.
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<br>Of the 17,000 rounds fired last year about 10,000 were 22lr,223rem, and 308.But they where all fired at LR.Out to 400yds for the 22lr,800 for the 223 and 308.About 5,000 in pistols and the other rounds where our LR guns,300win,30-06,270win,and 300ultra.I have about 600 shots through my Ultra and I will probably get 800 or before I rebarrel.
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<br>Shooting was the best part about the millitary.
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<br>I useualy get 11 to 12in 5 shot groups.But you have to relize that shooting a 10in group at LR is different than hitting that 10in target with one or to shots.
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<br>I cant remember who it was that said that just shooting was easy and anybody with our equipment could shoot like we do.There right for the most part.THE SPOTTER IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON IN LONGRANGE.Give me a week with the proper stuff and I could teach most hunters how to be a good shooter.But it takes a looong time for someone to become a good spotter.They give you the comeups for your scope,call your hits (and misses),watches the animal and guides you to the animal wonce its down.They are useualy the most expeirenced person.

Hi SealSniper/Darryl/PBLR.Darryl do you know who PBLR is?????I'll bet you do.If anyone out there has any doubt about LRH. I urge you to buy a copy of POINT BLANK FROM LONG RANGE.If you watch the video you will have a better understanding of how it is done.We could try to explain it to you until we are blue in the face.You know the old saying a picture is worth a thousand word's.A 53 minute long video is worth a hundred thousand.There will also be a HOW-TO video released in the near future that will show HOW it is done.THE RIGHT WAY.And the SAFE WAY.If you are interested in either video e-mail keenvisionvideosuscom.net and they will hook you up.It was the best $24.95 I ever spent....

Wow, I amazed at all the uncontrolled emotion and prejudice here. I don't know about others here, but I hate it when someone tells me I can't do something, especially when I already have. I guess I consider those folks "small minded."
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<br>I have been a USAF pilot for over 18 years. The the "average joe" pilot, what I do must seem extremely difficult. You know, flying supersonic, flying formation, landing big airplanes on little airfields, fling approaches down to minimums, even teaching other how to do all this. Since I have the skills to do all this, it is no big deal. However, just because "joe pilot" is small minded and can't imagine himself doing the stuff I do has no bearing on my own ability to do it.
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<br>The same applies to these guys who routinely make long shots on game animals. Some of you guys need to think hard about you emotional prejudices here.
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<br>Blaine

I did just that but no answer was provided.

AFP, -- most of us have no problem with long range shooting, it's just what's used for targets. -- no

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<br>That's not true "Need One"---Longrange is not just for paper targets any longer and hasn't been for about 40 plus years now. LR hunting began in the Pine Creek area of Pennsylvania in the late 50s and early 60s.
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<br>It's Long range Hunting for Game "and" for Match shooting at targets if you want too.
<br>Sort of a duel purpose pleasure if you get my drift?
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<br>If I were you, I would be ordering the tape to see how this is done and the distruction to an animal that is achieved. It will answer all the questions you are confused about, I'm sure.
<br>You did say you were interested in how it is done. Here's your chance.
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<br>Rolly---I'm not sure of what answer you never got?
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<br>Later
<br>Darryl

Rolly, I have several rifles that are used for LR work. The lightest is a Rem LSS with a 28" Hart barrel w/brake
<br>it weighs in at 11.17 lbs and is chambered in 300WBY short thoat. We use this rifle when we are going to Pack into a secluded spot sometimes a mile or so from the nearest road. I use the 178 grn Horn. AMAX with a charge of 86grn of H1000 and a Fed 215 primer. This rifle will consistantly shoot half inch 5 shot groups at 100yrds we have successfully taken targets out to 1025 yrds with this rifle. I also carry this rifle in the woods and if a longer shot presents itself I have the capability to take the shot with complete confidence. This particular rifle is topped with a 4.5x14 Leupold 50mm obj. I sent it to premier and had an external elev. adj. turrent put on. Also included in the arsenal is a 14lb 30Hart benchrest rifle a 20lb 338-378 wby mag. and a 65lb 338-378wby mag. that I just had built and have not had a chance to use it on any Long Targets. With the later 3 rifles we use the Sierra Match King Bullets 220grn 30 cal. and 300grn 338 cal. In our hunting we usually use "bigeyes" as some would call them, they consist of two bushnell spacemaster spotting scopes mounted in a aluminum bracket. Most guys who use them run the 22xwa eyepiece I personally use the 25x eyepiece. As for rangefinders We usually have at least two 1000yrd bushnell lasers mounted on and colimated with our bigeyes so if we find a target we can instantly get a range make adj to the rifle/scope and have the target neutralized in a matter of seconds that is if the target cooperates. We also take and use a barr/stroud WWII optical rangefinder for a backup. Most of the time if you have a sunny day you have to resort to the optical rangefinder because the lasers just wont work on a sunny day at extended ranges. This slows the process down a little but the end results are the same. That is if the target cooperates. What I mean by cooperate is STAND STILL we Never shoot at a moving target. Long range is a team sport and should never be attempted without a SPOTTER with experience, This is a process that take a great deal of practice by all of your TEAM. The spotter calls the shots in the bigeyes by watching the trail or wash of the bullet all the way to impact then and only then do you make adj if need be. I hope I have answered some of your questions. We are in the process of filming a How To video on long range hunting. I'll keep you informed with its progress for those who might be interested. Thank You for your interest.

Man, I wish I could find a secluded spot that was only a mile or so away from the road!

NO.What do you mean MOST of us.Since when does MOST of us mean one or two people????

Kodiak..PBLR HAS ALOT OF THEM.The only bad thing is when he take's me to them he alway's blindfold's me.So I can't really help you out.Sorry....LoL!!!!!!!!

Darryl, I must say I am somewhat intrigued by this long range shooting. I have heard of a .30-378 shooting into 4 inches at 1000 yards, and the current record is a .50 BMG shooting into 2.6 inches. That is some very high levels of accuracy. You said about the 300 grains MK moving along at 2000 some feet per second at 1000 yards. That provides adequate energy and expansion, I will agree. At 2000 yards, it is still moving faster than the speed of sound, but not by much. The bullet still packs over 1000 pounds of energy. However, it is moving along at 1200 fps I think you said. That sounds pretty low for getting reliable expansion at that range. Please explain. How low a velocity do matchking bullets expand at? I do not know, that is why I am asking you fellows. Thanks

If I were you, Id shoot more does. There are way too many does out there and not enough bucks, in many areas. There is not enough competition for a doe when buck to doe ratios are large, resulting in inferior genetics. Amazingly, the best doe to buck ratio would be around 1:1, but this is probably unattainable. Still, it is suprising to see the ratios in some areas, especially ones with buck only hunting.

PBLR, with that Bushnell laser rangerfinder set-up of yours how do figure the "up hill/down hill" degrees? Hope that made sense, if not I'll elaborate more.

Darryl,
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<br>Thanks for the info. I will be over one weekend and shoot if there is an open bench.
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<br>A side note: You really should cut down on those hotdogs, you are going to get fat - like me.
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<br>Don
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<br>P.S. I will bring some smoked PA deer sausage. Better for you then those hotdogs.

Big Sky, Our lasers are for getting a precise range on a target. When we are hunting a spot where we are going to have steep angles up or down we just run a different chart with the correct angles plugged in. Usually angles don't exceed 45degrees where we shoot from. You can figure your angles out with a simple level (a cup of water will work if needed) and a 50cent protractor. We take care of these details well before season. I think this may have answered your question.

Yes, that answered my question, but I'm having trouble seeing how I could apply that out here while chasing antelope or mule deer. They have a nasty tendancy to not be in the same place twice. I'm having visions of myself running around spilling a glass of water and fiddling with a protractor...not going to happen. There are a few places they frequent and some pre-ranging and calculating might work, but for the most part it would be pretty tough...on account the darn critters show up where ever they want to. Is there a small device similar in size to a Bushnell rangefinder that can quickly figure angles?

Big Stick - I always wondered why you were reluctant to give the range of your longer kills, I had no idea that this was such a touchy subject. Bet you started grining the minute you read the title of the tread.

Big Sky,
<br>Sorry I am not aware of any at the moment and really to tell the truth haven't looked for a better method yet but now you have me thinking. I am sure there is some type of critter out there that could be used for that intended purpose. Try asking on LRH maybe someone over there could help US out with this one.